Ferrari SF90 Stradale : picture and news thread

Agree unfortunately. Only one that looks absolutely right imo is the Monza. There isn’t too much wrong in your pic for example but the front wheel looks like been punched in. I know that if I owned an SF90 the first thing I would do would be ordering spacers. And I love the car btw

 

Their ride height is quite low, about 10 cm of ground clearance for most models. The arches seem to allow for a greater wheel travel, which is a good thing, especially when then downforce squeezes the car down, or when one encounters a bump at 120 mph... People should keep in mind that these cars meant to be driven had. Messing them with lowering or spacers could disturb their set up.

Ferraris were always relatively big cars length-wise and width-wise.

 

But this is exactly it (the point) - the car should look right in these areas to begin with especially at the $!! No owner should need to have to worry about addressing these types of issues particularly when other manufacturers have managed to get it right in cars of far less value.
Putting spacers on to set the wheels farther out so to fill in the void alters the geometry of the suspension and also places the wheel off the center line axis of the wheel bearing which is really not desirable at all. The same applies to lowering the car as the geometry changes, along with introducing other undesirable issues such as creating a mismatch between shock and coil spring rates etc. The knock on effect - and end result - produces a conflict against what the Ferrari engineers and testers spent exhaustive hours and money setting up for the car to produce not only the claimed lap times but also deliver what they deemed to be the best handling characteristics and overall feel for the chassis. That all said it appears certain owners amazingly seem to possess a far greater skill set than what the Ferrari engineers do as they believe the car will handle and ride better with the simple cobbling on of a few aftermarket mods.

I also totally agree with Realzeus here where he says the cars suspension compresses progressively as speed rises and down force increases, further reducing ground clearances. And the under-body of the car is already very low to the ground even though showing excessive wheel gaps This is absolutely true!

So all of these things need to be taken into account by Ferrari at the time of design so that the car presents correctly in these areas as a finished product. However, unfortunately in this case SF90 clearly doesn't - as is the case with Pista (and F8 as well to an even worse extent). The anomaly here is that it isn't as if other manufacturers haven't been faced with the exact same issues yet have managed to resolve these issues at the design and engineering phases yet for some odd reason Ferrari is seemingly unable to do that even though claiming to be superior. This is the point that I struggle with.

 

One of the benefits of a 'dry sump' lubrication system.

The body shape is designed to feature these gaps above the tires; otherwise the tire would be more shrouded in the wheel well design without all this technical cheating to lower the car.
Plus the American bumper height standard dictates the height of the vehicle. So as we have now seen with GPF Ferrari simply sets the car suspension "UP" for all markets.
Also Ferrari may have more vertical wheel travel than other manufacturers in contribution to it's ride qualities. The 458 Italia seemed to benefit from this thinking.

 

Yes - benefits of dry sump. And bumper height the others all have to deal with that, so nothing special or unique there...

And re suspension up.; well funny how all the marketing shots aren't prepared to show that....only suspension on bumps stops, wheels extended out in guards etc. So again they do know what looks more appealing but can't seem to execute it.

Actually at the moment there is no technical cheating going on at all sadly, hence why the car looks jacked up with the wheels inset too much which again only exacerbate the jacked up look. If the wheels came out even just 10mm in the guards and the w/gap 10mm lower the car would start to look somewhere where it needs to be for what it is. But to do that certain things would need to change like redesigning the suspension with longer links or, employing a narrower body, raising the underpinnings accordingly upward to accommodate for the 10mm drop etc. Funny how others can do it and the car still rides exceptional and looks right in this area. A Ferrari surely doesn't need to have the stance of a Toyota Camry to achieve a decent ride? Or maybe it does under the current design/engineering circumstances? Maybe the wheels are just too small for the car as well. It looks a combination of issues all which could and should be fixed.

 

It amazes me that Mr Shadowfax and I have come to such an agreement. Perhaps we were on the same page all along...

On a final note, I don't even pretend to know how a supercar's suspensions is supposed to work, I just trust the experts who build the car. If Ferrari thinks that this is the proper wheel gap, then it's fine by me. It seems to work wonderfully after all...

PS1: A few years ago, driving the 430, I had to make a 3 point turn, as it wouldn't clear a speed bump that a normal 911 (not a GT3/2) wouldn't even sweat about. That is why I don't understand people who dismiss the lift system.

PS2: Funny story that night, I saw a rare Alfa SZ Spider and climbed out of the F to take a picture of the Alfa. I cannot find the pic though.

 

Don't be so amazed Zeus! The main difference between you and I is mainly my taste for the Ferrari coolaid isn't as nearly as strong as yours haha.....although I very much do like their cars! And please drop the Mr. I'm already old enough without any further need of reminding . Plus as shadowfax i'm just a regular dude with a very big taste and passion for cars. That's basically the start and finish of it.

PS. I also happen to agree on the lifter. In realty it really should be standard equipment as Porsche has finally done on their latest Gt cars. That way it removes all price haggling amongst other justification for and against it.

 

I am in my mid 40s, so the "sir" suffix is something we had been taught back in the day, when addressing a stranger. Blame the British education, mate... LOL!

Lift for the win then!!!

 

The issue of the wheel gaps is more complex than you think from a design point of view. If they reduce the wheel arches the car will look fatter and heavier. Take a look at the Roma: the wheel gap is relatively small but the space between the upper part of the front wheel arch and the hood looks bigger than, i. e, the Portofino.

Many talk about the Monza, but that´s a rolling sculpture that makes some concessions to aesthetics. For a start, they didn´t have to care about head room and luggage space. And IIRC it has 21 wheels, while the 812 is doing well with 20, so probably the Monza is over tyred. The 21 inch wheel is a trick that is being overused by some manufacturers like Porsche.

In the end, all this could be easily solved with smaller cars. But it´s the way it is.

 

Just noticed that Tesla's market cap is nearly the same as VAG group. WOW!!. VAG with all its baggage and diesel-gate (massive fines still to be paid) and that abomination called a Taycan will really struggle going forward.

Worst issue is Taycan will have eaten up huge capex and hence who knows whether 992 etc will get too much development going forward - which is really sad IMHO. Personal observations only and I am a massive fan of the GT4 and GT3RS so have no axe to grind here.

Ferrari with SF90 being Hybrid has made a very good decision and kept its brand cache and expertise intact.

 

Shack I think that's just a lot of wishful thinking going on there buddy!

From what I was told today 992 is well on track and moving forward, with the planned new variants all on track (as per usual). Taycan apparently has order books already spilling over... I'm personally not a fan of the front of the Taycan but from the side on and rear viewing angles it looks very sharp for a 4 door, not that it matters to me anyway as I think all electric cars suck big time. Although even as a 4 door the Taycan looks way better than Sf90 imho....which was not hard to do. Taycan probably goes nearly as hard and,will undoubtedly prove far more reliable as well. Price-wise is a bargain in comparison .... Just saying. Not that I like either but if forced to buy one or the other Id probably take 3 to 4 Taycans for the price of one sf90 and just discard them when they eventually run out of power. PS and fwiw from what I was told the Taycan will most likely sound better on the inside than SF90 as well. Outside neither sound any damn good so.....what's it matter.

 

Porsche are learning from Ferrari how to play this "order book full" game. Again I dont own a Tesla or have their stock so this is just a business observation. The Porsche cash machine that helped VAG is no more and the Taycan could have been a winner but IMO accountants got hold of the design.

 

You mean like what happened with sf90? So it was the accountants that threw the acceptable design concept into the bin and the designers into a very small cage? Okay. Clearly wasn't a good move looking at that rear end. Maybe the designers were looking to get square....and succeeded! They excused themselves, retained their positions with an iron clad case of I told you so? Ok - plausible. I'll buy that. Pretty sure those accountants will think twice next time.

 

Enlarging footprints... ;-)

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back then a 275 GTB was a big car and they didn't seem to have any problem fitting that one with a V12 to!

 

Bud time will tell but the Taycan IMO is an abomination of epic proportions and will not sell in enough quantity to get Porsche even close to an ROI in 10 years. SF90 on the other hand has a few detractors (not even sure how many of the detractors are even real buyers at this level) and is one product line of many.

Porsche bet the farm on the Taycan and they failed IMO..

 

I have a slight suspicion that you are not a fun of the Stradale's design, but let's try to keep the performance part realistic; they are not even close and obviously they aren't competitors.

 

At the time, that even SONY has revealed its own new electric car. And you still talking about hybrid!!, time is passing and things are changing too fast, going hybrid is NOT enough anymore !!

Furthermore the Porsche Taycan is a stealth revolution otherwise the SF90 is far less logical and of-course it's too ugly!

 

Is that fact or opinion?

 

You can't yet say they failed on Taycan. Looking at the rapidly expanding electric car market in general I would say Porsche is in for a major win considering the overall capability of their car against the competitions offerings. Also keep in mind Porsche has a very good reputation for what they make and achieve.

And re "the detractors" are you suggesting I'm not in that level and am just being a detractor here for the sake of it? Heck even my Pista owes me over a million.

Your suspicions are 100% correct Zeus! Whilst there are certain elements, angles and features which I don't mind, overall I find the design a disappointment. Given SF90 is a new platform which has lost certain key trademark characteristics associated to the brands recognition (such as the unmistakable exterior engine sound and light weight chassis) I would have expected a hell of a lot better from the design to substitute for the loss of those key shortfalls. I also don't feel Ferrari has the luxury of being complacent by offering such an unresolved design for a new hybrid model given today's competition. And dare I say they (Ferrari) are skating on very thin ice with this car when you look at the strength of the rising competition. And that can only place even further pressure on used values/depreciation.

And i'm not yet convinced there will be a significant enough difference in overall performance characteristics and driving pleasure between these two (SF90/Taycan) aside the fact one is over 3 times the price of the other. So the more you look at it the worse it gets.

 

Interesting to see different opinions. I finished looking at the taycan ts including laughing at the $250k price tag in 5 min. Don’t get me wrong, I love Porsche that’s why I have 3 of their latest GT cars and cayenne at the moment. Then with the Sf90, I feel ok with the 250k in just options on my sf90 order. What a world we live in.

I think the sf90 platform has the potential of wiping out all the completions in 500k - 1m range globally including some of its current Ferrari lineups. It’s got AWD, 1k HP, all touch screen tech, also hybrid means a lot of heavy ICE tax country would give it a break, etc. Sf90 may not be the answer for 10 years later but it’s exactly what the current needs and more.

 

Yes! Even Porsche themselves say that electricity is not mature enough for a pure sportscar. BMW stated that they will produce petrol engines for at least 30 more years! This electricity fad is just premature.

Well, let's just agree to disagree. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that.

There is no room for personal opinion on this one though. Let's take a metric we know for both cars, 0-200 kph. Porsche claims 9.7'' (even though tested it was close to 10.5''), whilst Ferrari claims 6.7''. That's a whole order of magnitude!!! They are not even in the same ballpark... It is more than certain that the same will apply to all other performance stats.

 

Sometimes I have to scroll back up to the top of the page to see where I really am...