Ferrari Sport Cars Thread | Page 58 | FerrariChat

Ferrari Sport Cars Thread

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Aardy, Feb 12, 2023.

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  1. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Modified in 1954 as far I remember. Also the rear scopes disappeared and so on... Yes, it has been restored like Mille Miglia 1952 but not perfectly to my eyes...
     
  2. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    We are just speaking of the fact two original cars (a Pf berlinetta and a Vignale coupe) received the same treatment (new nose) at the same period approximately...;)
     
  3. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    May I suggest to stop spreading incorrect, unsubstantiated information and simple speculation. Especially if you don't have pix and dox.

    Marcel Massini
     
  4. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Not necessarily! And yes, quite different! Very different cars with noses that look very same.
     
  5. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Spreading incorrect ? Remind me who said Casini’s 250 MM Pf berlinetta at Gran Premio Supercortemaggiore was 0352MM/0292MM and not 0270MM ? :confused::D
     
  6. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Time is not right, let's wait another 10 years and maybe we'll meet an audience that will be more recipient.
     
  7. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    I have not said my last word regarding 0270MM. There is still the Senigallia race with Casini and his 250 MM..
    Yes, exactly the same car than the Gran Premio Supercortemaggiore....:D;)
     
  8. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    4 July 1954, 12 Heures de Reims, France

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    #12 375 MM Pinin Farina Spyder 0370AM Masten Gregory/Clemente Biondetti 4th
    #16 750 Monza Scaglietti Spyder 0440MD Umberto Maglioli/Robert Manzon Scuderia Ferrari DNF
    #28 500 Mondial Pinin Farina Spyder 0424MD François Picar/Charles Pozzi 9th
    #34 166 MM/53 Oblin Spyder 0300M Johnny Claes/Jacques Herzet 17th

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    #3 Peter Whitehead/Ken Wharton Jaguar D-type
     
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  9. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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  10. detective

    detective Karting

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    4 July 1954, 12 Heures de Reims, France. If I am not mistaken car #16 has the bonnet catch layout of our mystery 500 Mondial Scaglietti prototype. Difficult to determine any other features in this photo. I recall that 0440MD was one of two chassis numbers often quoted for our mystery car. A side view would help. Any one out there got such a photo ?
     
  11. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    #1436 Aardy, Jul 4, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2024
    100% sure 0440MD. There are several differences between 0428MD and 0428MD...
    And no connection with what you call « our mystery car » which was the Scaglietti prototype, possibly 0306TF...;)
     
  12. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    .................

    MM
     
  13. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Please Marcel, could you expand ? :D
    Yes, I meant 0428MD and 0440MD ! Thanks ! :D:D
     
  14. Aardy

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    Back to Trieste-Opicina hillclimb on 20 June 1954.


    Entrants in "Classe oltre 1500" were :
    #57 166 MM Touring Le Mans Berlinetta 0066M Anteo "Teo" Allazetta 5th in 5'30''2
    #58 375 MM Pinin Farina Berlinetta 0358AM Franco Cornacchia DNS (gear ratios unsuitable for this track !:eek:)
    #59 250 S Vignale Coupe 0156ET Primo Pezzoli 3rd in 5'17''3
    #61 250 MM Pinin Farina Berlinetta 0352MM/0292MM Gerino Gerini 2nd in 4'55''0
    #63 166 MM/53 Vignale Coupe 0266M Piero Umberto Sartori 6th in 5'33'2

    Barchetta.cc gives Piero Umberto Sartori's 166 as 0244M but we can see on the last picture the car #63 is 0266M.

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    #64 Gordini 24 S Spider Franco Bordoni in 4'47''0
     
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  15. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

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    The same barchetta.cc says that Phil Hill owned 0266 M since March 20, 1953. Different car or wrong date???
     
  16. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    I think 0266M had an italian life before leaving for USA, like many others cars...
     
  17. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Clerical error: Hill owned 250MM Vignale Spider 0260MM.
     
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  18. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

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    Next to the Trieste - Opicina hillclimb, Barchetta.cc has Piero Umberto Sartori racing chassis 0244 MM in other 1954 hillclimbs: Torricelle (March 28th) and Trento - Bondone (May 23rd).
    Do you think that he raced 0266 M in al these events?
     
  19. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    We have a pic showing Piero Umberto Sartori with 0266M. Why would he drove 0244M ?
     
  20. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Factory letter (Ref. SAT/GG/cc 352) to Robert Petersen in Los Angeles, dated 8 September 1972, confirms that the factory sold 0266 M with a 3-liter engine on 20th March 1953 to Phil Hill.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  21. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    I'm still convinced the car #63 at Trieste-Opicina 1954 is 0266M...
     
  22. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    #1447 Aardy, Jul 5, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2024
    And why Phil Hill would need a second car as he bought 0260MM exactly the same day (20 March 1953) which had a 3 liters engine ? Proof that you can make papers say anything...
     
  23. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Off course it is. Just look ahead and keep up good work!
     
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  24. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

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    Which IMHO only means that this is exactly the moment that the clerical error regarding 0266 M vs 0260 MM was made....
     
  25. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #1450 Marcel Massini, Jul 5, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2024
    0244 MM (166 MM/53 Coupé Vignale) was renumbered and received a second chassis number, 0049 S, yes, an odd number, like the 166 Inter Coupé Ghia.
    I have seen it with my own eyes stamped on the frame of the 166 MM/53 Coupé Vignale. And there's also some factory paperwork for this.

    Marcel Massini
     
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