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Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by In-Dure, Jan 23, 2021.
Relax with the caps man.
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Read Luca Dal Monte's book Enzo Ferrari: Power, Politics, and the Making of an Automotive Empire. It is the most exhaustive biography of Ferrari. In the book, and in several conversations I have had with Luca, Enzo had virtually no involvement in the making of the road cars.
I think the closest he came was bemoaning his company didn't design a car as beautiful as the Jaguar E-Type.
I think the issue with the Ferrari SUV is they are coming LAST -- and that means the bar is set pretty high. If it isn't clearly better than others, you would have to say its a fail. Heaven knows they have been working on it long enough.
If they think they can just stick a Ferrari engine and badge onto a truck and sell it, they have a rude awaking coming.
@the mayor that’s true
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First two years they’ll be orders full, wealthy folks who buy SUV’s get bored like the rest of us Bentley, RR, lease will be up for renewal, don’t forget the optics of
mama’s Ferrari SUV.
I see a fair number of the RR Cullinan's driving around in Florida. Not like a Honda but probably 1 - 2 per day.
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In my opinion, the FF looks so much like an SUV, they might as well just do a face lift and call it good. I do like that about McLaren. They won't make an SUV, but mostly due to the costs involved with completely re-engineering and building everything from scratch.
You forgot to add, "Ferrari went Turbo" to the list.
There does not need to be just one way to enjoy a brand; somehow Ferrari racers have been able to coexist with drivers of street cars, so not sure why an SUV driver should be excluded. As one of the many people who needs an SUV (in addition to other vehicle types), I am happy to have more options than an Explorer or a Sclade. Have enjoyed owning Cayennes, Range Rovers and the Bentley; have driven the Urus and the Cullinan (prefer the former). Not sure the price point of the Ferrari will make sense for this class of vehicle, but if it provides an in-brand option to an existing customer or allows a new customer to share some of our passion, I am all for it. I will have more in common with someone who buys and is enthusiastic about their Ferrari SUV than the people in the Teslas who think they are great drivers because their cars are fast from a standing start
Would be interesting to know what percentage of people bought Ferrari stock as a typical "investment" to ultimately sell for a return? Since it's not a matter of survival a la Aston, would have been nice if the manufacturer with the greatest racing (in particular) and sports car history would have passed on this.
We are haunted by the specter of well-off soccer moms dropping off their kids at the playground in their Ferrari SUV's. But, I think that the real psychological barrier here is that we fear the commoditization of the brand. What is the psychological value of owning a rare and exotic brand of car when there are many of them? What does that do to our own investment in these cars? If the owners of the brand want to greatly increase volume, they can do that, but with volume comes loss of exclusivity. Also, loss of profit margin.
I own a Cayenne. It's a superior SUV. But it's not at all like driving my Ferrari or a 911 for that matter. And I see other Cayenne's all around town (in Ohio, for crying out loud!). Ferrari can do that, and make a lot of money for awhile. But the exclusivity will be dissipated. So I would prefer that they protect the exclusivity of the brand by continuing to limit production and enjoy the huge profit margins that they do.
All that said, my Ferrari will be just as enjoyable for me to drive regardless of whatever business decisions the suits make.
Some folks also don't realize Ferrari is currently using V6 turbos + hybrid in F1. Fuel Injection from Carbs, electronic hardtops, all-digital interiors (see Roma), Catalytic converters, Particulate filters, fake vents.
All the holy cows have been slaughtered long ago.
Once again, the Mayor speaks the truth.
I agree there are gradations, but I think the watershed moment was 1969. After that, we're just talking about different shades of grey now. I think we all have to accept Ferrari is a publically traded company (with all the expectations.)
I'm not too concerned because I see, well, Porsche. Most of their profit comes from the Macan/Cayenne. It has not diluted the 911 or 718s (well outside sound); in fact, both continue to be distilled.
Does the FF or GTC 4 Lusso count as an SUV? 4 wheel drive, 4 doors and a hatch? I know they call it a shooting brake but...
So your logic is the Panamera is an suv..
If it was not for the SUV Porsche would likely be out of business or would not be producing nearly the level of cars they do. The SUV sales subsidize their cars meaning they can afford lower sales numbers and margins on the cars when they can sell tons of SUVs. Yes it has diminished the brand a little bit I’d rather have the brand than not.
So my thinking for the Ferrari SUV is bring it on and let the ultra wealthy subsidize the Ferrari business so the “normal wealthy” can still buy the cars.
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The RR SUV is gross. As is the Bentley- looks like a hearse. The Lambo SUV is pretty sexy- you can get the same car as an Audi for $100k less, the lines are not as sexy and the interior is not as rich, but...
Skip all the SUV's and get a Four Wheel Pickup with Crew Cab. I have 4 Ferrari's and I have had many SUV's (Tourareg, Cayenne, Range Rover and Bentayga). I recently gave away my $265k Bentayga to my Son and bought a new Ram Rebel 4x4 Crew Cab pickup for $50k. It has a 5.7l Hemi engine, rides great, has tons of interior space with many options, will haul 12,000 pounds and carry anything. You ride high up and I will never go back to an SUV.
It will impact the image of Ferrari for us who love the brand for what it was built for (racing, passion, exotic, beautiful, thrilling to drive etc..) and i wonder if it will sell so well that people in 10/20 years might just know Ferrari as a car brand as opposed to an exotic/sports/supercar brand? The same way Porsche now sells way more SUV and sedans than 911s.
Are they coming out with an SUV? Not for me. But I would be surprised if Ferrari hasn't already built an SUV for the Sultan of Brunei or another collector at that level. Just a guess.
You make SUV's to be competitive. To stay in business. To pay shareholders. Make money to invest in styling and technology. To attract new customers that may also buy cars. To race and market. I never drove an automatic until I was in my 20's. I get my stick fix with my 1986 911. I like the automatics, they're faster. Customers don't want automatics or they would be made. I wonder why no one complains that McLaren doesn't make a stick? Incidentally, I have an F12 that I drive three or four times a week as I drive my other cars. It's on another level and it puts me on another level. I'm a driver. Not a collector. I don't drive SUV's but to each his own.
2 Doors not 4.
This discussion has become a bit meaningless, like arguing about women.
California really does have fabulous roads for driving; as does Colorado and Italy! As everywhere, one needs to know where to go. And I’m sure there are a hundred other options.
Look we should be cheering for Ferrari to survive in a competitive market. They want to make expensive SUVs? Good. Price them high and sell them all over the world. I probably won’t buy one and it sounds like others here might not either, but Ferrari, like any other company, has to adapt or risk extinction.