Ferrari testarossa ignition ? Or tuning issue ? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Ferrari testarossa ignition ? Or tuning issue ?

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by leslie_choo, Apr 25, 2018.

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  1. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,912
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    romano schwabel
    thank you leslie,
    so as I see it is only an exhaust gas analyser what count the air fuel ratio out of the emissions? but if you may have a missfire or aa injector is not ok 100 % then the counting is also not ok.
    the real air fuel ratio you only can meassure when you count the inlet air and the fuel what you need, and this is not possible with an exhaust gas analyser.
    best would be to adjust the mixture so, that the HC is at minimum, nevertheless what the CO shows. this is my experinece and I was always going fine with this, not only with a F, also with other cars
     
  2. clinton

    clinton Rookie

    Feb 16, 2013
    39
    Houston
    I could be a bad fuel distributor. when mine failed it was very rich. the affected cylinders would not run and the raw fuel was burnt in the exhaust and created lots of white smoke.
     
  3. leslie_choo

    leslie_choo Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2012
    422
    Singapore
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    BCChoo
    The car is running well , with power . Just that running rich and with white smoke ( until you drive for 10 mins the white smoke gone). But when you park and start the car again white smoke comes again .... this is still unresolved !!


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  4. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    you are sure that it is white smoke? white is always water but you once have written water is ok
    so I think it is more light blue instead of white, and this is oil. what kind of engine oil you use? if fully synthetic than may be it will be to fluid - only my thinking
     
  5. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2006
    4,896
    Troy, Michigan
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    James
    if you put your face into the smoke and your eyes start watering immediately then its a fuel issue. Make sure your catalytic converters honeycombs are not melted too. It happens often and the car gets adjusted to compensate.

    They best way to test the fuel system is to pull the fuel injectors and run a flow test. The procedure is in the manual. It takes some time to set it up, but its an easy task.

    It could be bad spark plugs. Pull the plugs and see if any are really nasty.

    It could be the E part of the KE Jetronic too. You could try pulling the throttle position sensor on the side of the right throttle intake, them using a jumper wire, jump the 18-2 connections in the plug. This disables the E part and you can isolate that out of the equation if the problem persists.
     
  6. leslie_choo

    leslie_choo Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2012
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    Singapore
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    BCChoo
    Yes joe you are right sorry I cannot differentiate the light blue and white smoke but definitely not water . I have been using he same Oil and have not changed for 9 months , it was all ok before. The oil I use is 10-60w


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  7. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    oil viscosity is ok as long as you will not use 0 W xx or 5 W xx
    how does it smell?
    put a little coolant fluid on a hot exhaust and smell the burned coolant. if your white smoke smells the same then you know it is coolant water.
    try the same with the oil

    so it does not matter if the engine is cold, warm or really warm? "white" smoke always when you start again? and also after about 10 minutes the smoke is gone when you drive or also when the engine only idles?
    check the compression.
    what does the exhaust gas analyzer says with HC when there is the "white" smoke? and what when the smoke is gone?
     
  8. leslie_choo

    leslie_choo Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2012
    422
    Singapore
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    BCChoo
    I read about the fuel distributor issue - this info below 1) description is exactly my car current symptom .... can I get remanufactured fuel distributor that has already calibrated etc ? Thanks


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  9. jgmblair

    jgmblair Formula Junior
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    May 27, 2010
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    Winnipeg, MB Canada
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    Jeff Blair
    Like James states, testing your flow rates is an easy task. This should take less than a few hours and will surely tell you if you are getting the proper fuel. The values are all in the WSM for idle, partial load and full load.

    Read this ongoing thread

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/bosch-ke-factory-settings.574507/

    You stated earlier things were delayed as your mechanic was looking for a CO2 monitoring tool for tuning, there are many things you can test without a gas analyzer. You've confirmed you have a "rich" bank and that can be confirmed as James states.

    What other tests have you performed?
     
  10. leslie_choo

    leslie_choo Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2012
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    Jeff , we found something weird today , overall the engine sounds very nice but we realized that some of the plugs at the left banks has no ignitions . We pull off some of the cables and the car has no impact in term of the engines sound , this clear shows there is not ignition into these cables but some of the cables you can easily hear the differences of the engine after we pulled off . So we pulled out the left distributor cap :-

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    Looks like I need to change a pair of distributor cap ? And I got to know the left side #144638 is very expensive almost 700-800 USD but #144637 right side only around less than 200USD .

    Or I can just clean the distributor instead of changing the new one ? Any suggestions or recommendations where to find the distributor cap ? Thank you !







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  11. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    I see in the parts diagram that the caps have different parts numbers, but I think they are changeable?
    if not, where is the difference?
     
  12. leslie_choo

    leslie_choo Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2012
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    That’s what I thought , I can buy both Right side and they are cheaper and both look the same !


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  13. tf308

    tf308 Formula 3

    Dec 14, 2003
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    Tim
    Why can you clean that distributor up?
    I bet it has a layer of oxidation on it that kills the conductivity....


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  14. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,373
    THAT is truly Old School!

    Great stuff!

    Cheers,
    Vincenzo
     
  15. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Dec 9, 2003
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    bo
    Couple points to ponder, as I learned a lot doing my major a year ago...

    1) If your distributor looks like that, I also suspect that your ignition wires are shot. Mine were rock hard the last couple inches before the distributor. There was no continuity when checked. Find my other threads, you can make your own ignition wires and they work great. You need a very specific wire though, and only one company makes it...
    2) Ignition cap is ungodly expensive. Get a brass brush and clean yours off. I used a dremel with a brass tip. Brian Crall mentioned in the past he has cleaned these successfully too.
    3) White smoke on start up can be water in the exhaust system. Mine shows no smoke when starting, then you get white smoke as water gets evaporated off, then it clears. Grey smoke is oil...

    On my car at least, cleaning the distributor and changing the spark plugs/wires made a huge difference in how sooth it ran. The wires were in bad shape, and the car only has 15k miles or so...

    Bo
     
  16. leslie_choo

    leslie_choo Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2012
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    Thanks all for the info . I have decided to change the distributor cap ( I will keep the old one and clean them up as backup) , all injectors , and the ignition wires set . I hope the rich fuel problems can be resolved since all spark plugs will be fired . And the smoke will go away !

    I think we are 80% of the right path due to the few spark plugs did not fire up before we change the parts ( distributor caps etc etc )

    I didn’t know injectors could be so bad just 40KM mileage

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  17. leslie_choo

    leslie_choo Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2012
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    Agree and I have bought a new set of ignitions wires . Btw after cleaning can the distributor can still be reused ? I also change the rotor .

    Thanks


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  18. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    25,112
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    The only difference between the stock TR distributor caps is the added labels for the wires - 1 thru 6 on one, and 7 thru 12 on the other (so they are usable on either bank). The reproduction cap is supplied without the labels.
     
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  19. leslie_choo

    leslie_choo Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2012
    422
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    BCChoo
    Not so good news, even the ignitions changed to all new still have issue that piston 9 not firing , and there are oils in the chamber that cause the white smoke ... the mechanic has bought a scope to see the piston ... maybe piston ring issues ....


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  20. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    #45 turbo-joe, Jun 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
    what about the compression?
    you have an endoscope to look into the cylinder?
    my experience from other cars says a broken or burned valve? but hopefully not as bad !

    you can unplug the wire from the 9th cyinder, connect it to a sparkplug, hold this on ground and see if there is a spark. if not then you know where to look
     
  21. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
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    Aug 29, 2008
    5,265
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    The out side of the injector is not important. The inside spray pattern is.
     
  22. leslie_choo

    leslie_choo Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2012
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    Joe , I was also thinking it might be valve seal it was my first suspect, No, we have not done compression test but only the scope to check and see the condition of cylinder .

    Ok thanks for the information on how I can check on the spark plug . May I ask if only 9th cylinder doesn’t have spark can it be ignition coil issue ? Or all spark will be gone if it’s ignition coil . I believe this spark issue has nothing to do with the piston ring and/or valve seal issue it’s a separate issue does it make sense ? Or you think these can be linked ? Cylinder 9 has oils in there . We are trying to track and solve issue one by one .... thanks !


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  23. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    the oil in cyl. 9 is because not right burning. when you put in spark plug without gap between the electrodes and you will run the engine after short time the sparkplug also is oily. only question is what comes first: no ignition or oil?
    if only 9th cylinder not firing it is no problem of the coil. when I see your distirbutor cap I think that could be a reason.
    but please check compression first before thinking too much
     
  24. leslie_choo

    leslie_choo Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2012
    422
    Singapore
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    Hi Joe , I just came back from the workshop the 9 cylinder has spark but the oil cover it . So now confirm the ignition is ok .
    We also did the compression test , cylinder 6 from the right engine give the reading 12 . But the cylinder 9 at the left give only reading 9 .

    We also use a telescope to view the inside piston it has the oil . I believe that explains why there are white smoke until I drive for 10 -20 mins ( when the piston expanded) only then the white smoke is gone. And will come back again when you park and start the car again .

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  25. leslie_choo

    leslie_choo Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2012
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    I am wondering why would the piston ring worn out for fast as my car mileage is only 40,000 km and I did not drive the car hard . I suspect due to the distributor cap and rotor arm worn out issue that caused the car running very Rich in certain cylinders , after months and years of fuel wash through the cylinder chamber which then cause the worn out of the piston ring must faster than the normal usage . Does this make sense ? I am try to learn more here .... and of course find an answer to my own doubt ..


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