Ferrari to drop "Flexi" wing..

intresting... But i still think this would never happen to a team that isnt a points contender.

 

I thought the protest is not the rear but instead the front wing right off the nose. Camera has captured the wing lifting away from the nose during the Malaysian GP.

 

agreed.

 

It was both wings, the rear protest was last GP and the front was this. But the coverage I saw did show a rear shot of the car and the rear wing was flexing at speed.

I congratulate the engineer who thought it up

 

Here's an update from 13:48 today:

TEAMS ASK FOR CLEARER WING REGS
Last Updated: Sunday, 19, March, 2006, 13:48

Three leading Formula 1 teams could be forced to revise their rear-wings if the FIA decides to tighten regulations regarding the flexibility of aerodynamic structures on cars.

Eight of the 11 teams have signed a letter to the FIA asking for clarification over the regulations regarding the alleged use of flexi-wings in Formula 1.

ITV Sport believes that Ferrari and Red Bull's team bosses are missing from the document, which asks the governing body to clear up what is perceived to be a grey area in the regulations.

"The FIA will clarify the situation before we get to Melbourne," said Honda's team principal Nick Fry.

"That's what we need. All we asked (FIA technical delegate) Charlie Whiting is which interpretation is correct.

The teams indicated in the letter that if the FIA doesn't clarify the situation, they could lodge an official protest at the Australian Grand Prix in Melbourne.

Ferrari's front wing came under scrutiny during the Malaysian Grand Prix weekend after the element appeared to be moving on in-car footage.

This comes after the team's rear-wing was cleared in Bahrain when it was subjected to stringent rigidity tests by the FIA.

But while the Italian team's wings have been the subject of much speculation over the weekend, Ferrari is not the only one thought to be using a rear-wing that falls into the teams' "grey area".

"Anyone who is not an engineer can see from the TV pictures and make their own conclusions," said Fry.

"Two other teams are in the same situation, and ironically they are part of the eight.

"We had a nice conversation with Charlie Whiting this morning today and took his word that it will be fixed for Melbourne."

 

any one have a movie of the element's in question moving?

 

If you can watch the Speed coverage of today's race you will see them highlight it. The part they referred to was the upper portion of the front wing. It was moving outwards from the body about 1/4" or maybe more. There was metal dowel pin where it connected to the nose - it was obviously not fixed to the nose and was designed to slide in and out.

They also talked about the rear wing - theres 2 elements and they suggested that the two could move (like flatten out) reducing drag or that the two elements could seperate up and down making the "hole" between them larger/smoother. They showed another car (I think the Midland) that had a small strut connecting the two elements and also showed other cars that had a main center brace down to the chassis to add stability.

It will be interesting to see what Ferrari does to "fix" it and if its applied to the front, the rear, or both

 

well, from what i read, Ross brawn said there's no problem with the flexi wing thing. but he also added should the FIA ask them to replace those wings, the team will comply. i just hope it won;t affect the scuderia's performance tho. i think right now, the scuderia's performance is kinda satisfying.

 

There was an article on one of the F1 news sites (maybe Pitpass or F1live) that Todt had agreed to "fix" the wing issue prior to the next race.

It seems to me like a judicial settlement. If you get sued and you think you'll lose, its better to settle on predictable terms than take a chance with a potentially less favorable unpredictable outcome.

 

this is just lame, if the wing really made that big of a diffrence then ferrari would have been in the top 3 in this race, there is no reason for this whole issue. im gunna go out on a limb and say that it wont change anything in the next race, and if MS wins or is even in the top 3 there will be a new dispute about something else on the ferrari's

 

I also thought it was the front wing that other teams were complaining about. I thought the rear wing business had already been sorted. Here are the pics of the front wing in question.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I thing a big story is being made out of nothing. The FIA will say it's legal or not, appropriate action if necessary will be taken - end of discussion. That being said, as Gemm also pointed out the rear wing issue teams had with Ferrari has been already declared legal by Charlie Whiting and Jo whatshisname.

Carol

Here's the latest from this morning:

"Television footage aired throughout the Malaysian Grand Prix has clearly shown movement of the upper element on Ferrari's bi-plane front wing arrangement.

Such in-car footage, aired on Germany's Premiere channel during qualifying, has lead teams to believe that either the upper element of Ferrari's front wing is twisting, or the whole front wing assembly is flexing at speed.

Both of these movements are considered outside the spirit of the regulations, and the latter movement ought to contravene the existing FIA deflection test for front wings.

This flexing could allow the front wing to provide downforce at lower speeds, then at higher speed - as the wing bends backwards - to improving top speeds, by preventing the increase of downforce and drag.

What has been seen on TV, is the in-board mount for the upper element. This consists of a sliding pin that allows the wing to move laterally relative to the nose-cone.

The movement can be seen by clear space appearing between the wing and the nose. This space opens up when the car jumps around on the bumps, but also - and more disturbingly - upon increasing speed.

This movement can be caused by several potential explanations. As with any F1 car's bodywork, the front wing assembly does shake around as the car goes over bumps and kerbs. This would require some free movement in the mounting, but would not explain the gap increasing with speed.

This speed-related gap could be a result of the aerodynamic load flexing the wing in one of two ways, too: by the twisting of the upper element itself, or by the drooping of the lower wing under load. Either of these movements could be deemed as aerodynamically beneficial.

Although the wings of most teams do show a degree of flex, as the wing is supported so close to its centre-line, the outer tips are not very well supported.

For many years (and in Sepang this weekend) on-car footage has shown many front wings flex at high speed, although this has never been seized upon by other teams or the FIA before.

Drooping front wings were, by coincidence, something that Ferrari were accused of in 2000, and an FIA test - to see if the wing drooped, by placing a load on the endplate - was introduced back then.

As the Ferrari current front wing has passed this long-standing test, it is deemed legal within the wording of the current rule-book.

What rival teams are upset about is that the rules are not entirely clear with regards to how rigid the bodywork must be, saying the current deflection tests are outdated and do not counter what Ferrari and several other teams might be doing with the front wing assembly.

Teams sail very close to what may be deemed as legal. And now that the matter has been raised with a whiff of acrimony, the FIA will most likely issue a clearer guidance before the Australian Grand Prix at the end of this month."

 

excellent pics there! this whole situation is just confusing. if the rear is allowed to flex, what up with the front then?

 

no, ferrari agreed to rework the rear wing so it doesnt move, from what i conclude, they havent made a decision about the front wing


i dont necessarily see the benefits aerodynamically of having the top of the front wing slightly seperate from the nose. sure it would create a small vortex at speed when there is seperation, but the vortex would seemingly be so small that there would be no benefit. also methinks it would create more drag.

RE the front wing. what i really think is going on is when they constructed the wing it is made with pins in the end, so it can slip into the side of the nose (the top portion) and as the dynamic pressure increases there is is strain that occurs and the top element is slightly pulled from the nose. i dont think that it was completely unintentional. allowing the top element to move freely would eliminate axial (tensile) stress in the member

 

^an intresting point. to build on it though, i find it intresting how the nose fo the ferrari is unlike any other teams. by this i mean that no other team has a top wing that connect both to the endplate and the noes of the car. the aero forces that RSMatt above it talking about could be happning to every team but you just can see it becaue there isnt a refrence that is connected to the nose. Like the renault has the tame top wing design but it connects to the endplate than it rises from the front wing, it however isnt attached to the nose. so there wing could be doing the same thing, ie having the endplates pushed down under increased aero load(speed) and you could never tell.

 

well its not just that........

if the wing is connected firmly to something, whether it be connected to the nose or a vertical structure element, instead of moving outward like the ferrari element does, it will develop strain. namely, instead of the material staying in its original form and moving as a piece, it will deform and stretch at the molecular level, such that the actual atoms are moving apart (and this, understandibaly, makes the material weaker - or less resistance to loads)

so where a renault may develop stress, the ferrari pulls out of the nose. its not really a big deal. i dont think ferrari designed it so that their wing didnt stress, but rather this design made assembly of the front nose section easier. (sliding a rod into a hole on the nose as opposed to trying to reach into the tip of the nose to tighten a nut or other fasener)

like i said above, i dont really see an aerodynamic advantage to having that space, i think its just a concidencidental accident and the other teams are trying to stick it to ferrari. for them to say that ferrari's wings are moving and theirs are not, is just naive or retarded, havent decided which yet

 

This is really nothing to F1. The teams have been playing with the layup of the CarbonFibre in there wings to make them flex back under aero loads yet the wing will still pass the FIA Flex test. It is just making the most of the rules.

The other teams are just trying to make waves as Ferrari has found a better way to make the wings flex while still staying within the rules.

If you look on F1-Live the FIA found nothing wrong with the Ferrari's wings after the race and declaired the results official.

 

I'm no aero-expert, but I got the impression they were allowing the upper element to separate in order to allow the lower element to drop under speed and produce less drag. The front wing is "boxed" in; upper element, lower element parallel to each other and then the nose and the endplate forming the sides.

They could fix this gapped section permanently and allow the upper element's pitch to still change if that's what their goal was, but they couldn't allow the lower element to shift down with the upper element fixed. Well, they could, but it would be a hell of a lot more complicated.

My guess would be that right now they're working on a wing that allows the whole upper element to flex down, allowing the endplate and lower element to droop as well. It'll be interesting to see though because now the top of the endplate will be pulled in when the wing shifts down instead of allowed to tip outwards.

 

Will someone please tell me why Honda's illegal fuel system earned them a ban from two races, a sizeable fine, and a threat to be expelled from the sport? Meanwhile Ferrari receives two weeks time to prep new aero parts without the threat of fines or race bans?

- Chris

 

because the wing's questionable, not illegal? just reading btwn the lines here.

 

Maybe because if you haven't read all of this discussion, it hasn't been deemed clearly illegal, as was the Honda fuel system.

 

It is a not well defined rule and hence open to interpretation. As a side effect McLaren and BMW-Sauber (both parties complaining about Ferrari) are now forced to revise their wings before Melbourne as well.

Ferrari tested the waters to see how far they could go and they got the answer. Now they'll address the situation. No big deal.

 

It is, and always has been, about pushing the limits. New concepts, new ways to stretch or interpret the rules, all to maximise any advantage. That is what makes F1 great. No-one should be upset or feel victimised, Ferrari would protest McLaren or any other team just as fast. It is all part of the "Game".

 

I have read the discussion, and every article I could find. The Honda system was deemed illegal after an investigation. Ferrari's wing was found to be unacceptable. But what makes one illegal and one unacceptable? As I recall, there were many people who said Honda was just pushing the boundry as well.

- Chris