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Ferrari Today - There's Something Missing

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Rossocorsa1, Jul 27, 2019.

  1. davidy7

    davidy7 Rookie

    Sep 23, 2013
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    David Y
    Since listed on NYSE in 2015, like the rest are chasing for quarterly earnings. Once you are on Wall Street, the spotlight is on you making those numbers. And so, the continuous production of new products just like any automotive companies, chasing the numbers. RACE P/E at 39 is high in automotive sector as it promises potential growth and increased earnings.

    Get good, very good condition pre-owned Ferraris, better value for your money. Enjoy the car with family and friends. Forget about appreciation unless you have a rare classic one.
     
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  2. No-Subt2

    No-Subt2 Rookie

    May 6, 2019
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    Danny
    I test drove the F8. To have a car to own and drive, I would rather have my 2003 360 Spider with a gated shifter.
     
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  3. lagunacc

    lagunacc Karting

    Aug 24, 2013
    128
    Scientia sine Deo nihil est.
     
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  4. anunakki

    anunakki Five Time F1 World Champ
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    I learned a new phrase!
     
  5. lagunacc

    lagunacc Karting

    Aug 24, 2013
    128
    Merely a condensed version of your excellent post ;)
     
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  6. 911&F430

    911&F430 Karting

    Oct 14, 2014
    92
    Atlanta
    I don't think it has anything to do with being older. It's about wanting an engaging and exciting driving experience (actually the younger enthusiasts I meet seem to value this more than the older ones). Going faster with the computer doing a lot of the driving and the sound muffled by a turbo is less engaging and exciting for many. To me the manual F430 was the last great Ferrari driver's car. Naturally aspirated sound and clanking the gate on that shifter. With the close gear ratios you get to shift a lot......such an engaging experience!
     
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  7. Stackhouse

    Stackhouse F1 Rookie
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    CT.. AKA Pimp Daddy
  8. Shorn355

    Shorn355 Formula Junior

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    Scott
  9. Shorn355

    Shorn355 Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2011
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    Some great posts and thoughts in this thread - Personally, I don't think it has anything to do with age except the 40-60 ish crowd grew up dreaming of and in some cases aspiring to more analog, raw, gated-shifter, flawed, quirky, sometimes dangerous exotics from Ferrari/Lambo etc. and now they are all superior quality, non-quirky, easily driveable, safe, comfortable etc. I am fortunate enough to be able to toggle between what was my ultimate dream (and at the time unobtainable) car (my beloved 95 355GTS) and my recently-procured 2014 458 Spider - The 458 is sick-fast and insanely capable and comfortable as well as solid as a rock - the 355 has mood swings, quirks, good days / bad days weird little noises, no gadgets and demands more effort and delivers less actual performance but is incredibly fun to drive.

    Manufacturers like Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo etc. simply must cater to a wider range of buyers to stay relevant and must manage costs to stay profitable - hence SUVs from Porsche and Lambo and Ferrari and Lambo dropping manuals (sad) - it is simple business and unfortunately we should thank the FF/Macan/Urus/Cayenne buyers or we would not have Pistas, 918s or Aventadors.

    There is obviously still a lucrative market for "old school" analog buyers - regardless of age - that is why people anny up $500K and wait 2 years+ for a re-imagined Singer 911 when they could spend less and walk in and get a new GT3RS.

    It is what it is and at least we live in a time where you can walk in and obtain a bad-ass 700+ horsepower car with a warranty that you don't need to plug in - I sense those days are numbered so we should enjoy them while we can.

    Cheers :)
     
  10. Brian Mahoubi

    Brian Mahoubi Rookie

    Oct 18, 2017
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  11. 911&F430

    911&F430 Karting

    Oct 14, 2014
    92
    Atlanta
    #111 911&F430, Dec 6, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
    We are losing our connections to the mechanical world. What we can feel is being traded for what we can measure.

    Quicker lap times, quicker 0-60 mph times.......less engagement (electronic nannies so anyone can drive quickly, loss of the gated shifter for a quicker shifting automatic) and less of the wonderful Ferrari naturally aspirated sound.
     
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  12. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
    13,010
    The new passion is $$$$$$$$$.
    Nothing else. And that's sad.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  13. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    Absolutely outstanding post. Thank you very much. Thank you.

    Marcel Massini
     
  14. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

    May 14, 2017
    3,715
    I agree with much of what you’ve said here, but there are a couple of points I differ with you on.

    1 - I know many people like to talk about Luca di Montezemolo as if he walked on water, but let’s not forget that he was the leader of Ferrari into the modern production phase. Under his leadership, production significantly ballooned and the cars (particularly starting with the 360) really entered the heavy numbers era. I’m second to none in my admiration for the man, but let’s not pretend that he didn’t have a massive influence on what Ferrari is today. In fact, he lead the company into what we now know it as today.

    2 - While many may not consider modern Ferrari’s as the stuff of youthful dreams, think again. Millions of boys (and girls) all over the world think of LaFerrari’s, Pista’s and F8’s (among others) as dream cars, just as we thought of 250’s, 275’s, 328’s, etc.

    I’ve had a modern Ferrari, but like many, I gravitated back to the older cars I dreamed of in my youth. Still, I can’t say the modern cars aren’t outstanding. They’re really remarkable. But, again, as the author of this thread, for me, the mystique of Ferrari is defiantly not what it was when I was a teen.
     
  15. ross

    ross Two Time F1 World Champ
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    montezemolo brought manufacturing and quality control at ferrari to the higher standard it needed. i owned ferraris just before his arrival and then soon after, and there was a marked difference - thankfully. he also knew that the company had to increase their sales to pay for other things like the halo cars and racing, but at the same time he knew how enzo had kept the mystique alive. so he pushed for an entry level car with mass appeal (for asia mostly), and that was the cali, and it made them a lot of money. the disagreement with sweater man came about when LDM said no to the SUV, and he lost that argument. so i tend to agree that LDM was the last true keeper of the enzo spirit.

    as for your point number 2....altho i do believe that the modern cars are still lusted after by the youth of today, i also think there is still a great deal of lust for some of the cars of yesteryear. my observation at the recent houston ferrari festival is a case in point. phil malacek brought a 275gtb, a lusso, and a spectacular 250LM. to us cognoscenti, these were epic machines not seen too often, and we were impressed and intrigued. to the regular viewers without extensive knowledge of the marque and no contextual understanding, they were just old cars. there were 2 Laf's and then seemingly dozens of 458's, speciales, 488's, pista's, aperta's of all kinds, calis, portofinos, etc, which certainly caught people's eyes, but there were so many that the impact was diluted. then there were a couple dozen other models from 15-25 years ago that were nice, but nothing special. and then there were my F40 and my BBi and these were completely swarmed by the crowds. there were 75 cars in total, but the car that got the 'People's Choice" award was the F40. not the newest, not the most expensive, not the rarest. but i guess the most popular in a crowd of a few thousand people whose average age was probably 30. so i guess my conclusion is the same....the mystique part of ferrari, got lost somewhere along the way.
     
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  16. Thecadster

    Thecadster Formula 3
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    Apr 27, 2017
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    So I might be an odd duck, but my dream car is a street legal version of the P80/c that is fully decontented: no radio, no sound dampening, no tech, no luxury, with a proper NA V12 putting off 800ish HP. Take my money. Instead, every manufacturer seems to be on an inexorable slide to GT cars in all variants. By the way, I would even accept the aforementioned car if it were fitted with a GPF...lol.

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  17. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
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    Texas!
    Floating a minority interest was stupid. You're subject to all the same rules, regulations and expectations, but you don't get the dough. If you're going to exit, exit.
     
  18. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 9, 2008
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    Well said


    Sent from my 16M
     
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  19. albkid

    albkid Karting

    Jul 1, 2016
    159
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    Jim
    Enough of this dumping on the paddle shifters. Some of us can't work a manual clutch pedal as we used to because of health issues. In any event, I did not kill the manual transmission, it was Ferrari.

    Driving home from an appointment today on the interstate, traffic was zipping along at 85-90 mph, and my engine was singing! (Even a state trooper passed me going more than 90!)
     
  20. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

    May 14, 2017
    3,715
    I certainly have no issues with paddle shifters. I love manual shifting cars, for sure (I have an 89 328 GTB and an 85 Countach QV Downdraft), but I also have a 99 355 F1 Berlinetta. I actually take a lot of pride in the fact that my 355 is the first Ferrari to ever incorporate the F1 transmission. It’s actually a very historic technological leap for Ferrari (obviously, given that all modern Ferrari’s have paddles). Also, I’m 51, and though I’m sorry to say it, very few (and I mean VERY few) sub 30 year olds have any idea how to drive a manual. And, before everyone jumps up and down to insist that their son or their neighbors daughter knows how, yes, of course, some (VERY few) know how to drive manuals. That vast majority haven’t a clue and they aren’t going to learn. You be the judge how that will translate into who will be buying and driving these great cars over time.
     
  21. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
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    #121 sixcarbs, Dec 20, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
    Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it was LDM who started the limited production by design.

    288's, they needed to build 200 to qualify for Group B (I think). They ended up building 272 because that's how many were ordered. F40's, I believe they built as many as were ordered. I don't think anyone was turned down but I could be wrong.

    Then came the F50. "We will only build 349."

    Was that really necessary? Why not build as many as you have the capacity to build? And then so many models after that had the same silly artificial constraints.

    There are certain collectable cars in history that are more collectable because so few people ordered them. Intentionally limited runs serve no purpose other than to attract the least desirable type of buyer, someone who is less likely to drive them. (Yes, I know many here bought and drove them but that extra "feature" attracted other types.)

    What would be so terrible if they offered as many Pistas as people wanted (and they could produce)?

    JMHO
     
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  22. rampante550

    rampante550 Karting

    Jul 20, 2010
    110
    North Carolina
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    Daniel
    Just now seeing this thread and agree with majority of the thoughts/sentiments here. Some good group therapy.

    I never wanted to be one of those people who thought cars from their youth were the best when they got older, but as I approach my mid-30's, it's been a decade since a production model excited me - the Scuderia. They reached perfection with the F1 transmission and actually had the nerve to make the exhaust come straight out the back. The 550 and Stradale still hit me as the best cross-sections of classic and modern.

    I would gladly take a n/a V6 Ferrari with less than 400 hp and an optional manual. 9k redline, manual seats and windows, whatever you need to do to meet emissions - shut the engine off at every light if you want, I don't care, I'll get to hear it start up over and over again. I know compromises have to be made because of regulations, being publicly traded, etc. - I just wish they had found a better way to meet external demands while staying true to the Ferrari identity. Plenty of other luxury brands have done so, but I think Ferrari hasn't quite found the sweet spot yet.
     
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  23. randkin

    randkin Formula 3

    Aug 2, 2015
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    Randy
    That car will likely never be built. With limited production facilities (about 8,000 units/yr) Ferrari, like any other business, will use their limited facilities to product vehicles which earn the most profit for the company and the car you described would not be built for a variety of reasons. Not the least being that it would be competing against the large car manufacturers, the new Corvette at $60k being a main competitor. Do you think that Ferrari can make any money selling a car at $60k?
     
  24. Jas

    Jas Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2005
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    Jas
    The problem IMO is complacency (customers will buy whatever they produce), and weight (Ferrari are under no pressure to switch to carbon fibre construction).
     
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  25. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    39,883
    Texas!
    No one is suggesting Ferrari make a $60k car. But it would be nice if they made a nimble, light weight, car with a stick.

    Ps. I don't think GM makes that much money on Corvettes. It is their halo car.
     

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