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Ferrari Two cylinder

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Bob Zambelli, Jan 8, 2022.

  1. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli F1 Rookie
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    A long while back, I read something about an experimental two cylinder Ferrari engine.
    It was a paragraph imbedded in an old article and very uninformative.
    Was it true? If so, are there any details?

    Bob Z.
     
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  3. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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  4. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Jun 19, 2012
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    Bob: It was Lampredi's theory of torque over horsepower (that worked for his four cylinder engines in the early 50's) carried to the extreme. He designed the 2.5 liter F1 two cylinder engine in 1955 just to see how far he could go in reducing the number of cylinders and making more torque for use on short, twisty circuits. It was dynoed and made 175 bhp and lots of torque, but it shook itself off the dyno! Balance shaft technology did not exist at that time and neither did titanium rods, etc. After the tests, it was thrown into the factory scrap heap, and in the early 1970s, Bamford bought the whole pile for pennies per pound. That is where he also got all the Lancia D50 engines, transaxles and drivetrain pieces that later formed the reproduction D24 Sports and D50 Grand Prix cars we have today.
     
  5. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    In the good old days Ferrari used to give dealer personnel a Christmas present, usually a book. One year I got "Piloti Che Gente", that kind of thing. One year I missed but have seen was an entire book dedicated to Ferrari experimental engines. Many were just proof of concept and never meant to go into production. Had a lot of interesting stuff. 2 strokes, a W6. a number of one and 2 cylinders etc. Around 2000, maybe 2001 I was on a factory tour to accompany some friends who had never been. It was the 1st time I had been to the factory as a tourist. The girl leading the tour was new so what looked like a senior person hanging around went with her to see how she was doing and tagged along with the tour. We got to some dark dank corner of one of the buildings and he said "Oh here look at this" and threw off a tarp covering a big pile of stuff. It was a heap of those engines. I recognized a few. One was a 3 cylinder 2 stroke and the W6 was there. I always wondered if he was supposed to show it to tourists.
     
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  6. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #5 miurasv, Jan 8, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
    I wonder if Bamford or Bardinon bought a certain P4 engine and transaxle?
     
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  8. BMWairhead

    BMWairhead Formula Junior

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    Modern F1 engine suppliers build 1-3 cylinder mules to test combustion chamber design. I just watched a video of a Cosworth naturally aspirated, no hybrid 300cc single that revs to 20k and makes 90hp. I’d love to see some vintage versions.
     
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  9. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    The Mercedes proof of concept for their desmodromic race engine in 1954 was just a single cylinder head and valve gear they bolted to a lathe bed and spun in the lathe.
     
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  10. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    Do you have source for this figure? My factory brochure says 160@5200.

    I so believe the stories saying it literally walked out of the door!

    Cheers, Kare
     
  11. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Kare: I also have the 2002 factory book showing the 160 @5,200 rpm. My 175 number came from a 50 year old conversation with Manacardi. The intent of my post was not the absolute number, but to convey the story of how the engine came to be and what happened to it and why. While we are on the subject of the factory engine book, I have little faith in the numbers published in the book for engines built before 1975. For at least 50% of the engines listed in the book for which I have factory dyno sheets, the book and the factory sheets DO NOT agree. Some engines produced more power than the book states and some less. Ah, the Italians!
     
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  13. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I wound up through odd circumstance with a 360 dyno sheet in the clear plastic folder the department hung on it after its run on a replacement engine. No worries Dyke, they're still doing it.
     
  14. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Kare: the 174 bhp number is also mentioned in Ferrari by Hans Tanner Fourth Edition in the photo section after page 168. Tanner tended to have his own version of "truth", but when it came to data, all his numbers came from some source at the factory. He was "very" plugged in to the Modena scene. So you can take your pick of a number from the era of the engine, or a number from 50 years later when nobody who actually ran the motor was still around.
     
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  15. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Kare: Here is a thought that might clarify the entire situation. The numbers from the era state 174 bhp @ 4,800 rpm. The 2002 book states 160 bhp @ 5,200 rpm. It would make sense they are BOTH CORRECT. The engine power peaked at 4,800 and they ran it on to 5,200 before it shook itself loose from the dyno.
     
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  16. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    Very informative! Just interested where different numbers come from.
     
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  17. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli F1 Rookie
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    Thanks, Gents, for all the interesting information!
    As a (retired) development engineer, I can only imagine what it must have been like to work in Ferrari's experimental engine division.
    An absolute DREAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Bob Z.
     
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