Ferrari V12 engine with oval pistons.

Will be fantastic news if this extends the life of the V12.

 

Think they did this to allow for hybridization?

 

Not sure, but I know they've cited the length of V12s as an obstacle to hybridization (packaging issues). This would mitigate it.

I'm sure it will still be longer than a V6, even with the same displacement. But you get all the benefits of the 12 (primary and secondary balance, sound, heritage, etc.)

 

Very interesting and I venture good news.

 

Any innovation is probably good news, especially as it relates to somewhat keeping traditional ICE lineage.

I'm not familiar with VW/Bugatti has done with their W and VR motors , but doesnt that solve much of the overall length problem? What are the trade-off between the two?

 

Honda did it in 1979, with a production version available in the 80s or 90s.
Theirs was originally for a race motorcycle, oriented 90deg from Ferrari's new version, with eight valves and two connecting rods per cylinder.

Notice that they've stuck to round pistons after that experiment.

 

Personally I don’t care if they have to lose the current v12 as long as a replacement sounds as thrilling up to 8,700.

side note, the power wars are over now that electric crushes all and every sports car of worth has like 900hp. Dear god Ferrari just go back to NA v8 and a manual.

 

Exactly. Ferrari engine...1 con rod per piston unlike Honda?

https://global.honda/en/heritage/episodes/1979pistonengine.html

Honda:



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OP patent drawing (I presume) shows the oval oriented 90 deg from Honda's version using single conrod.
I wonder about the valve layout, considering that replicating Honda's design (or even using 3in/3exh) would still require some interesting design work for the mechanics/packaging. If Audi and Ferrari could figure out 5-valve design, there might be able to make 6 or 8 valves work for some significant flow/turbulence gain, at the potential cost of huge jump in complexity. Curious to see what they come up with.

My guess would be a 6-valve, splitting the middle pair In/Exh, working off of the same lobes as the adjacent related valve:

. In In
Exh In
Exh Exh​

 

I'm no expert on the topic, so I'd love to learn from someone who is.

I believe one of the inherent benefits of the W configuration is shorter length. In a V12, the cylinders in each bank are aligned. This means that their spacing has to be the cylinder diameter (plus a bit of room between them). By moving alternating cylinders off this line, they can be moved closer together along the crankshaft axis. This has a packaging benefit (at least longitudinally), though sacrifices the inherent balances of the straight six or V12 layout.

This pill-shaped approach seems like it may allow them to have their cake and eat it too. There must be other complexity, however, like the valve configuration questions raised by @willrace. @NYC Fred, presumably it would be a single connecting rod per piston if it's correct that the goal is to reduce the length of the engine. Which must create challenges around distributing the energy during combustion evenly around the center of the piston. Hence the need for a complex valve configuration?

If it works, presumably this pill-shaped piston would benefit the packaging of any straight or V layout. I wouldn't think it would help with all but the most extreme W layouts as the benefit of the alternating offsets within a bank would be eliminated.

I believe the other thing Bugatti and Lambo have done that helps is simple: put the big lump in the back. I'd imagine it's more problematic for a front-mid V12 because you'd have to push the ICE forward to make room for the electric motor. Not great for balance. For rear-mid engine, you just shift the gearbox back a little. Not ideal, but it must be a smaller compromise.

It may also help that Bugattis and Lambos are already pretty big.

The challenge is that a V12 has its own unique signature. Other configurations can sound good in their own right, but nothing will sound like a V12 except...a V12.

I think the core ingredients are revs, cylinder count (more cylinders means more sparks per rev) and firing sequence. The secondary ingredients are intake and exhaust.

 

This is Great news, I like this oval shape. It looks exotic

 

Just thinking about the valve actuation again, and wondered if Ferrari might be bringing the pneumatic valves from F1 to the street, eliminating the need for camshafts and the associated linkages, and the packaging issues.
Same with electromagnetic actuation, but the signal noise may be too much for a road car.

Just thinkin' out loud.

 

I wonder about piston rings.

 

Weird...

Ferrari Filed a Patent for an Engine With Pill-Shaped Pistons

https://www.thedrive.com/news/ferrari-filed-a-patent-for-an-engine-with-pill-shaped-pistons



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This and the six stroke Porsche engine appear to be efforts of making cleaner ice engines so they can be compliant with the new more strict rules that are coming.
The article says about Honda doing it during the 70s, but I clearly remember that the peak was during the late 80s with the 750NR a V4 with oval pistons that allowed for eight valves per cylinder which generated more power due to the increased air/fuel mixture.
The race edition of that engine had 500 cc and was capable of developing approximately 130 bhp at over 20,000 rpm, a real screamer.
The main issue with that engine was that it had two rods per cylinder and after some time the pistons became unbalanced, so Honda decided to use a tougher material cylinder head resulting the pistons to sacrificially grind themselves on the walls and need a change after every race.
From what I see in the Ferrari engine the rods are joined in couples and maybe this is a solution.
Anyeay, its nice to see that ice engines are still developed, its good for cars to make vroom vroom sounds.

 

Is that the same engine with ova pistons that begun to be discussed here a couple of days ago ?

 

^^^^
1/ general sealing issues with the straight section.
2/ obtaining very uniform combustion wavefront on piston. If not can lead to cylinder scuffing. Possibly why Honda (post #9) had two con-rods.

 

This was Honda's downfall - could not get even pressure all the way around (duh, circle is inherently equal, oval is not)

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1jb3qsx/ferrari_patents_ovalpiston_v12_with_weird_shared/

 

The Ferrarichat tradition of multiple threads to cover a subject lives on.......

 

Srry, I didn’t see it elsewhere. Wish they’d let you delete posts.

 

Of course not!!!
Impossible!!!
Nevah happen!!!

Wait a sec....

Ferrari V12 engine with oval pistons.

 

Mechanically, or…