Ferrari vs Lambo - a frank discussion with special guest Allan Lambo | Page 6 | FerrariChat

Ferrari vs Lambo - a frank discussion with special guest Allan Lambo

Discussion in '360/430' started by Gary(SF), Jan 15, 2006.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Mbutner

    Mbutner Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2005
    1,689
    Bay Area / Washington DC
    Full Name:
    Quick Draw
    Performance aside, I have to chime in that at least to my eyes, the G car looks like it is a bar of soap that had some mild carving to round of the edges... The Ferrari looks feirce.

    HOWEVER, if I had to choose between a Murcie and any other Ferrari currently offered, the outcome would be the opposite.
     
  2. Clax

    Clax Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2002
    1,611
    The general public would beg to differ. When an F430 is next to a G in public, you are hard pressed to find a person that prefers the styling of an F430 over the G.

    You must use some interesting brands of soap.
     
  3. ELIM

    ELIM Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2005
    2,055
    OC, CA
    Full Name:
    Elliot
    #128 ELIM, Jan 20, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    You must be referring to YH8T's gorgeous black 430 Spyder
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  4. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
    11,285
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Dave

    That's 2 statements so far this week that don't pass the laugh test:

    1. "never owned a 360 put put thousands of miles on them"

    What owner(s) would be dumb enough to let you drive them when you don't like them and depreciation runs $1.+/mile?

    Why would you drive them if you hate them so?

    2. "instantly find a 430 at sticker"
    Why wouldn't you buy it and flip it?
    Hell, get it and I'll give you 10K more just to improve my balance sheet, 20K if it's a spider!


    Dave
     
  5. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Feb 13, 2004
    4,647
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Stephen S
    Yeah baby!! Are there more pics of that around??
     
  6. Scotty

    Scotty F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2003
    9,849
    Oregon
    Full Name:
    Scotty Ferrari
    Allan (GS Spyder)--I have a question for you. Let's assume all of the following are true (I'm not implying that they aren't, but let's not argue):

    1)The Gallardo outperforms (acceleration, braking, handling) a 360, and may edge the 430.
    2) The Gallardo looks better than either the 360 or 430 (the parked outside the Starbucks test).
    3) Lambo dealers don't subject you to the fraternity hazing that happens with Ferrari dealers.
    4) Service is more reasonable (cost, required items, etc.).
    5) You can buy the Gallardo at under sticker (so, versus the 430, it is a relative bargin).
    6) Dealers have Gallardos ready to buy, Ferrari dealers don't have 430's (except flipped over sticker cars).

    So, why, even in 2004, when the 360 had been out for years, were people still waiting on lists for 360's (and they were still selling over sticker) while Gallardos where being blown out at sig. discounts? Though I haven't shopped recently, my sense is that one can score a new Gallardo at under sticker.

    I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but I really am interested on your take on this. Seems like the situation should be equal (both cars should be on lots or there should be waiting lists for both) or at least close to it.

    I wouldn't think that Ferrari's racing heritage has that much to do with it. I'm guessing that Ferrari's dealer network is more extensive, but I don't know for sure.

    Scotty
     
  7. JWLee

    JWLee Formula Junior

    Sep 21, 2005
    357
    Calabasas, CA
    Full Name:
    Jong Lee
    I could understand why the Gallardo would seemingly get more public attention. Could it be simply because the design is more "unusual" and the car seems lower to the ground?

    If you polled the people who really knows and appreciates good design(not the ones that thinks a new mustang is a Ferrari), I would bet my money that the F430 would win over the Gallardo by a large margin.
     
  8. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Jun 23, 2003
    100,524
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Peter
    One of the (many) things i REALLY like about the Gallardo compared to the 360/430 is its size. Ferraris are becoming HUGE. From memory, it's not much bigger than a 996???
     
  9. CodeRed

    CodeRed Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
    368
    LALA LAND
    The G might look smaller but with 4WD, I doubt that it is any lighter which is the ultimate test.
     
  10. Piton

    Piton Karting

    Sep 11, 2005
    117
    In my experience first hand watching people attend exotic-themed shows who definitely DO know exactly what the two cars are by model, 8 or 9 out of 10 prefer the Gallardo, even when parked right next to a F430, as was the case at Anaheim Convention Center two months ago ("VIP Autosport") show.

    We're talking hundreds of car fans, usually male, between the ages of 18-40. They overwhelmingly prefered the Gallardo based on their visible attention to it, questions about its performance, request for pictures to be taken next to it, etc. Again, the F430 parked right next to it, got no questions, no requests, no nothing, save for a few comments asking about how much it cost from a half dozen guys above the age of 50.

    Don't write checks your body can't cash JWLee, until you've seen firsthand what many of us have. The Gallardo looks like what a $200k exotic should look like. The F430 looks like Pininfarina/Ferrari are trying hard, REAL hard, not to offend anyone by making a car that takes no design risks.

    On a sidenote, Marko's car pictured above (YH8T) does look fantastic however, it's the only F430 I've ever seen first-hand that even looks halfway like what a sportscar in that price bracket SHOULD look like. The black color minimizes Ferrari's poor design choices (gorilla nostrils, too-large air intakes above rear wheels, etc) and the wheels are perfect. Car looks great, he made all the right choices, but is a definite exception when it comes to F430s, not the rule. Most of them are brighter colors, are coupes with that bizarre "hatchback" design Ferrari implemented on the 360 previously to cover the engine, and look as if 50 people designed it instead of one gifted artist.
     
  11. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
    Los Altos Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Gary B.
    I wouldn't argue with you for a moment, I think the Gallardo is much the more extravagently styled car. But it doesn't seem to translate to real world demand at the dealer, where the checks are written. Any theories as to why that is?

    Gary
     
  12. watt

    watt Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    1,803
    Northern Rocky Mountains
    Full Name:
    Giuseppe T Hemingway
    Gary,

    F is living off very strong brand fumes... let the 599 and the scag have their impact sift into the mix, and let's revisit in 3 years...

    the bad news for L -- their cars are HEAVY, otherwise i'd own one... and 2 year warrantee doesnt help
     
  13. Piton

    Piton Karting

    Sep 11, 2005
    117
    And neither does the CGT (last year of production terminated due to lack of demand and soft sell-through), the Ford GT (sales softer by -30% than anticipated previously), or any other marque's products in Ferrari's range.

    We've talked about this before. Ferrari's amazingly strong brand is the draw. Not the specific model of car or its capabilities.

    It could be a Yugo, and if it had a Ferrari badge and cost $300k with dealers saying "ooooh, there's a waiting list as we're sold out for five years" it would still sell out, I have no doubt about that. Forbes calls Ferrari the most highly valued brand in the automotive world, and I don't doubt that for a second, they've earned it. Tremendous accomplishments in Formula 1, a romantic history, etc. Ferrari's brand is unmatchable. They could sell twice as many Enzos as Porsche's CGT, at three times the price if they wanted to. That says volumes. But it has nothing to do with the Enzo being a better car than a CGT, and I think you know that.
     
  14. Piton

    Piton Karting

    Sep 11, 2005
    117
    Very true Watt, good point. Why Lambo doesn't go to 3-year warranty I'll never know, particularly with Audi's backing. It would solidify the secondary depreciation rates in a big big way.

    FYI though: The F430 only weighs 140lbs less than a standard e-Gear Gallardo does, wet. Don't believe the nonsense the tifosi claim, we've had actual F430s on corner weighted scales coming to 3,380lbs compared to the Gallardo's 3,520lbs.

    AWD does make it feel heavier in my opinion, and that doesn't help.
     
  15. ghost

    ghost F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    10,043
    Singapore
    When I read a post like this, it renews my faith in this site. - :)

    That there are people that can write articulately, to-the-point, and with well-reasoned logic (without resorting to name-calling) makes reading stuff like this a pleasure.

    Whether I happen to agree with the comments are ancillary to the point of this post, but FWIW, I think they are entirely on-mark. I have become a believer (admittedly, relatively recently) that Ferrari is losing the race as it relates to design and 'passion.' I am no longer moved by the cars as I once was. There are many in my camp.

    Kudos to both Gary, Mak...err, Piton, and others who have contributed, for keeping this discussion civil. Even if you both agree to vehemently disagree. - :D
     
  16. Piton

    Piton Karting

    Sep 11, 2005
    117
    The true credit Ghost belongs to you, MarkPDX, Darth, and most of the other mods, along with Rob, who decided to allow this discourse to take place. We're enjoying ourselves, and I hope those on the other side of the aisle are as well.

    Gary, and most of the others, clearly know their ****, so it's stimulating to go toe to toe with them on such a passionate subject.

    But it's all in good fun, and despite the bickering a consumer really can't go wrong either a Gallardo or an F430, no question. Both are 10/10 cars to me. Still fun to split hairs though. ;)
     
  17. JWLee

    JWLee Formula Junior

    Sep 21, 2005
    357
    Calabasas, CA
    Full Name:
    Jong Lee
    I hope you are not serious.
     
  18. JWLee

    JWLee Formula Junior

    Sep 21, 2005
    357
    Calabasas, CA
    Full Name:
    Jong Lee
    Piton,

    I have seen the Gallardo in person, even though I still had not had the pleasure of driving one.
     
  19. Scotty

    Scotty F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2003
    9,849
    Oregon
    Full Name:
    Scotty Ferrari
    Piton--you make what I think are valid observations regarding Ferrari (to a point)--like moths drawn to a light. But on the other side of the coin, why isn't Lambo attracting more buyers. No one is arguing that the G is an inferior ride, except for the marketplace (and I'm not saying the marketplace is saying that the G is inferior, but the marketplace is placing some kind of vote with its shekels). I, for one, don't really understand it. I choose the 360 (and my upcoming 430) b/c the G didn't push my buttons (but that doesn't mean I don't think the G is a great car). However, this is the same reason there are a variety of brands of many upscale things (stereo, watches, etc.). I still don't get why the G doesn't sell better? Seems with people being blown off by F dealers, and even with choices like Aston, Ford, etc.--the G is relatively languishing. Certainly if I was in Lambo managment this is one of the questions that I would be asking.
     
  20. Piton

    Piton Karting

    Sep 11, 2005
    117
    All old territory that's been covered to death Scott.

    First: Lambo has sold over 3,000 Gallardos to date, in just two years.

    For being their first "entry-level" car in over a decade, that is extremely good. They've outsold Aston Martin's combined model range during that period, they've outsold the Ford GT during that period, they've outsold every one of the examples you mentioned, besides of course the "sold out" F430. ;)

    So that part needs to be removed from your debate, it's not factual. It's spin. The Gallardo is selling as well, if not better, than the DB9, Ford GT, etc, all of which are natural competitors.

    Second: Lambo hasn't had an entry-level car since the Jalpa.

    Many people still don't even know that a sub-$200k Lambo exists. That will change with time, but it bears mentioning. Lambo hasn't had years and years worth of 308--->328--->348--->355--->360--->430 to build on. They've gone Jalpa----------------------------------->Gallardo. They started in a large hole and have seen sales of the Gallardo grow in 05 over 04, and now 06 over 05 in total volume. Right on schedule, the car is achieving the goals Lambo's Audi masters originally set forth for the car.

    Third: The "next" Gallardo, or whatever they decide to call it, will sell even more units than this first entry-level car did.

    Just as the 360 sould over twice as many units as the 355 did, and the F430 is expected to go even higher, the next entry-level Lambo will build on the foundation the Gallardo has laid. It will sell more total units, at a faster rate, because there's now an entrenched audience that expects a cheaper Lambo on the market.

    In Ferrari-land, where the factory has all the tifosi lining up like mindless lemmings on "waiting lists" to be able to feed the culture of "I'm one of the special few! yay!" the true impact of depreciation and selling new cars at a discount don't apply. It's singularly unique in that way, due to the strength of the brand.

    But everywhere else, including the aboslutely plumetting-to-rock-bottom Ford GT, depreciation has accelerated to incredibly high levels the past five years. No one wants these high-tech F1/e-Gear cars off warranty, as they're fearful of staggering repair bills if something breaks, as they should be. Even BMW's 7-Series is seeing slightly elevated depreciation the past six months simply because the first-gen i-Drive cars are coming off warranty and no one wants to have to repair that thing's Space Shuttle level of electronics, nor it's convoluted electronic suspension.

    Ferrari is somewhat above this, but even they're not immune. Early 360 F1 cars can be had for a song, they've lost an incredible amount of value the past year for the reasons listed above, as well as the move by their owners to the F430.
     
  21. Piton

    Piton Karting

    Sep 11, 2005
    117
    Dead serious. The 612 proves it. ;)
     
  22. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Feb 13, 2004
    4,647
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Stephen S
    The 599 is another nail in the coffin. I'll waiti until I see it in the flesh until I make a final judgement though. Ferrari is arguably still building the best dynamic solutions, but like BMW, has lost it's design direction IMO. :(
     
  23. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,426
    Drove an 04 Gallardo today with Egear, what can I say not impressed, you can't see much out of the front windscreen very small tunnel vision, huge A pillar blocks vision as well, I can shift faster and better than it goes up gears, down shifts nice matching revs, doesn't seem that fast but you are moving well, sensation of speed is not great, very low geared.

    The attention factor, well it does get some but I also drove my 328 and it gets just as much thats an honest fact, no where near as much hysteria or gawking of my 512BB not even close, engine sounded alright but not great, certainly not exotic, I can see why they depriciate like a rock,they are like a semi exotic Audi way too refined.

    No matter what BS the Lambo guys say the Lambo badge does not have the panache and wow factor of Ferrari by the general public thats a honest fact as well, you can tell by the reactions of people.
     
  24. racerdj

    racerdj F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jan 19, 2003
    6,952
    Indianapolis
    Full Name:
    DJS
    I have to agree!
    My new office has no drive slopes that will preclude me from driving any of my cars to work.
     
  25. racerdj

    racerdj F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jan 19, 2003
    6,952
    Indianapolis
    Full Name:
    DJS
    Very nice write up.
    I too miss the RWD and high reving Ferrari but that about all I miss.
     

Share This Page