Ferrari Vs. Porsche or other sports cars

allanlambo · Nov 28, 2003

ILMAESTRO's Leading lady.
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ILMAESTRO · Nov 28, 2003

Allanlambo, racer and playboy!
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allanlambo · Nov 28, 2003

ILMAESTRO as a young boy.
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ILMAESTRO · Nov 28, 2003

To Allan:

Who Needs A Lamborghini, There was a mouse and an elephant and they decided to go for a walk in the jungle together. So they set off walking and talking and were not really paying attention to where they were going, when all of a sudden the elephant fell in a hole.

"Oh My!" the elephant cried. "What will we do?...I can't climb out on my own".

"Don't worry" said the mouse. I'll just run back into town and get my Lamborghini and we will have you out of there in no time at all."

So the mouse ran back to town and got her Lamborghini.

When she arrived back at the hole she backed the Lamborghini up to the edge. The mouse then threw the elephant one end of a chain and secured the other end to her bumper.

"Here we go" the mouse yelled to the elephant as she put the Lamborghini in gear and pulled the elephant out of the hole.

"Thank you, thank you so much my friend!" said the elephant.

"My pleasure" said the mouse "Should we continue on our walk?"

The elephant agreed, but as he turned toward the mouse his trunk accidentally knocked her into the hole.

"Oh my goodness" the elephant wailed, "I'm so so sorry!...Oh, What are we going to do now. I'm too big to fit in your Lamborghini!"

"Not a problem" the mouse responded "Just throw your dick down here" The elephant trusted the mouse so he threw his dick into the hole and the mouse climbed out on it.

Once she was out the elephant and mouse continued on their walk with no further mishaps.

And the moral of the story is... ?

"If you have a big enough dick you don't need a Lamborghini!"

allanlambo · Nov 28, 2003

ILMAESTRO said:

To Allan:

Who Needs A Lamborghini, There was a mouse and an elephant and they decided to go for a walk in the jungle together. So they set off walking and talking and were not really paying attention to where they were going, when all of a sudden the elephant fell in a hole.

"Oh My!" the elephant cried. "What will we do?...I can't climb out on my own".

"Don't worry" said the mouse. I'll just run back into town and get my Lamborghini and we will have you out of there in no time at all."

So the mouse ran back to town and got her Lamborghini.

When she arrived back at the hole she backed the Lamborghini up to the edge. The mouse then threw the elephant one end of a chain and secured the other end to her bumper.

Why do you always talk about dick? If you want dick, just pull the one out of your a$$!

"Here we go" the mouse yelled to the elephant as she put the Lamborghini in gear and pulled the elephant out of the hole.

"Thank you, thank you so much my friend!" said the elephant.

"My pleasure" said the mouse "Should we continue on our walk?"

The elephant agreed, but as he turned toward the mouse his trunk accidentally knocked her into the hole.

"Oh my goodness" the elephant wailed, "I'm so so sorry!...Oh, What are we going to do now. I'm too big to fit in your Lamborghini!"

"Not a problem" the mouse responded "Just throw your dick down here" The elephant trusted the mouse so he threw his dick into the hole and the mouse climbed out on it.

Once she was out the elephant and mouse continued on their walk with no further mishaps.

And the moral of the story is... ?

"If you have a big enough dick you don't need a Lamborghini!"
Click to expand...

allanlambo · Nov 28, 2003

Pull the dick out of your a$$ and maybe you wont talk about dick so much!
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Napolis · Nov 28, 2003

ILMAESTRO said:

Originally Posted by Napolis
Original Cobra's are fine cars. JohnBob may correct me if I'm wrong but his isn't one.
Only a real idiot would modify an original Cobra.
I'm quite familiar with 427's. There's a nice original one in my MK-IV.
On a June day 36 years ago it did fine.
None of this changes the fact that anyone who claims that "Lambo's suck" is an idiot as well.

Napolis, let me correct you about original Cobras:
First there are very few originals since a lot of them were raced during the years and either extensively modified or crashed.
Second, it is about impossible to tell if one has the original motor since Shelby did not keep a good record of what went where.
The only thing that really matters with an original car is its history, and that all the pieces on it are period correct.
I had an MK-IV as well, just sold it. It was AK02, the second prototype made with a 351 motor. OK car but short on power.

The CSX aluminum cars are indeed exact reproductions of the real thing and actually better much much straighter, they are made by Kirkham in Poland in an old mig Factory. Shelby buys the rolling chassis from them. The fiberglass versions are made in South Africa. The aluminum 427 side oiler is made by his company.
Click to expand...

The Kirkham cars are not an exact reproduction nor do they claim they are.
As for Ford MK-IV's you've never owned one. You may have owned an "AC MK-IV" There's a bit of a difference.
JohnBob
I have great respect for anyone who builds his dream. I was just pointing out that original Cobra's didn't have 625HP. The most HP original 427's made in 67 was about 500. The one in my Ford MK-IV made 480HP before the race and almost 500 24 hours later. It was a iron block, iron TP head with 2 Holleys. Good enough for 4th OA. It's sister car with an identical engine finished 1st.

ILMAESTRO · Nov 28, 2003

Actually there are an exact reproduction, up to the last bolt! you can interchange any part between a kirkham and an original, and if the original is indeed what it is, it will bolt right in! Indeed, if they are good enough for carroll Shelby, they are!!! When I need a part, I go there, and it alway bolt on!

Do me a favor, check their web site, it is very informative. By the way, the AC MK IV is much less original and more to be considered an evolution. Check this out! If you like Cobras!

www.kirkhammotorsports.com

Regards

ILMAESTRO · Nov 28, 2003

Napolis

You mean a Le Mans MK IV?

johnbob · Nov 28, 2003

JohnBob
I have great respect for anyone who builds his dream. I was just pointing out that original Cobra's didn't have 625HP. The most HP original 427's made in 67 was about 500. The one in my Ford MK-IV made 480HP before the race and almost 500 24 hours later. It was a iron block, iron TP head with 2 Holleys. Good enough for 4th OA. It's sister car with an identical engine finished 1st.[/QUOTE]
Napolis,
I am a real fan of the Ford GT and Mark IV effort at Lemans. About 15 years ago I was at the MidAmerica Shelby meet and a fellow had one of the Ford GT's that competed in LeMans on display, it was a white car with blue stripe. Would love to have pics of your car as I am a real fan of the 60's race cars and have a modest collection of car photos.
Thanks,
John

zjpj · Nov 28, 2003

Napolis -
I have pictures of your MK IV and its engine.

zjpj · Nov 28, 2003

The engine.

(sorry for the bad quality of the pics. I don't have a scanner, so I took a picture with my digital camera of the original had copy photos.

ILMAESTRO · Nov 28, 2003

awsome car, I saw them racing and winning at Le Mans when I was a kid!, and the noise!!!!!!!!

Ingenere · Nov 28, 2003

Just going throught the posts on this thread sometimes seems a bit silly. Alan...we could expect nothing less from you. I've got to remember to put you on my ignore list...but watching your posts is like watching a train wreck.....one just has to look!

That aside....cars are very individual...and very different...and enthusiast cars of this genre evoke the emotions of their fans as well as their detractors. They are cars that embody the ideals, philosophy and engineering expertice of their respective manufacturers.

I am extremely fortunate to have had multiple Ferrari's (308's through F40 and even a Mondial t which is a great car)...Porsches, Lotus', Lambos and even a Merc SL55 (brilliant car)....but the Ferrari's evoke a specialness to me that seems to be lacking in the other cars....but they are all great in their own way....just different and as a car enthusiast I embrace that difference rather than condem each marque for doing what they do best. And as far as "this car is better than that car" argument based on magazine track and acceleration times is rediculous. I have had the SL at the track and absolutely made mincemeat out of Vipers, Porsches, Ferraris, Vettes and various rice burners...and that is a car that isn't supposed to be able to do that. Real drivers in real situations in real cars....and each driving experience is one of the things that makes cars great. I can still remember driving my TR 10 years ago through S Dakota...because of it's specialness. I can remember seeing redline in an F40 in 5th....and I can remember attacking a mountain road in Northern CA in the SL......all because of their individuality and specialness. Happy Holidays! Ciao...Dino

ILMAESTRO · Nov 28, 2003

Well said Ingenere, we agree 100%, cars are very subjective, the Mondial T works great for me to take a drive on the week-end with my family around southern Cal. It is not the fastest, but it has great balance, and a light feel that you just don't get in modern 4 seater cabrios, this is why I like it. Its a the closest to a sports car with 4 seats and no top!

Stickanddice · Nov 28, 2003

Napolis said:

The Kirkham cars are not an exact reproduction nor do they claim they are.
As for Ford MK-IV's you've never owned one. You may have owned an "AC MK-IV" There's a bit of a difference.
JohnBob
I have great respect for anyone who builds his dream. I was just pointing out that original Cobra's didn't have 625HP. The most HP original 427's made in 67 was about 500. The one in my Ford MK-IV made 480HP before the race and almost 500 24 hours later. It was a iron block, iron TP head with 2 Holleys. Good enough for 4th OA. It's sister car with an identical engine finished 1st.
Click to expand...

I've had the pleasure of driving a 427, 427 S/C, and a continuation CSX. Not even the new Shelby Cobras are the same. Even my amateurish road test and "ass dyno" indicated a difference.

I've actually looked down this road when thinking of building a vintage track car. All of these makers insist they made improvements on the old design.

As for all those comments about Lamborghini...You should really think of what you are saying. Calling Lamborghini engines weak and fragile is silly at best. It has been mentioned many times before by me and others. You do realize who the father of the Lamborghini 12 is, right? The best automotive brain trust in Italy. It is highly touted as one of the best engines to come out of Italy. It was so damn bulletproof wealthy Lamborghini owners requested use for their marine racing hobbies, where it has won virtually everything there is to win. Ferruccio's rule of no racing didn't stay these nutcases and their boats.

You should really get out a little more and talk to some Lamborghini guys. If you have the luxury and the clout, which I'm sure you do as a previous Mk-IV owner, talk to some of the Lamborghini personalities who were instrumental with the marque past, present, and future. Talk to Lamborghini mechanics, not Ferrari mechanics who claim they can do Lamborghinis, there are plenty of those. Speak to the ones who have restored important cars. There is a reason why many of these elite mechanics have a deep appreciation and respect for the marque. As for practicality...Ferrari and Lamborghini is a moot point. The Germans and their great automotive offerings are so far ahead in this aspect that any discussion is pointless.

Cheers

ILMAESTRO · Nov 28, 2003

Stickanddice, The comment about lambos were from me! Yes indeed Lamborghini made boat engines which have nothing to do with the car models much bigger size if I remember correctly, around 10 liters. We use to have a Riva with those engines, we had to have it remotorised with Crusaders (big Chevies 427) because of all the problems, bearings, valves, etc. non stop!
The design was alright but the problem was the the company had no money to do true R&D.

Napolis · Nov 28, 2003

Stickanddice said:

I've had the pleasure of driving a 427, 427 S/C, and a continuation CSX. Not even the new Shelby Cobras are the same. Even my amateurish road test and "ass dyno" indicated a difference.

I've actually looked down this road when thinking of building a vintage track car. All of these makers insist they made improvements on the old design.

As for all those comments about Lamborghini...You should really think of what you are saying. Calling Lamborghini engines weak and fragile is silly at best. It has been mentioned many times before by me and others. You do realize who the father of the Lamborghini 12 is, right? The best automotive brain trust in Italy. It is highly touted as one of the best engines to come out of Italy. It was so damn bulletproof wealthy Lamborghini owners requested use for their marine racing hobbies, where it has won virtually everything there is to win. Ferruccio's rule of no racing didn't stay these nutcases and their boats.

You should really get out a little more and talk to some Lamborghini guys. If you have the luxury and the clout, which I'm sure you do as a previous Mk-IV owner, talk to some of the Lamborghini personalities who were instrumental with the marque past, present, and future. Talk to Lamborghini mechanics, not Ferrari mechanics who claim they can do Lamborghinis, there are plenty of those. Speak to the ones who have restored important cars. There is a reason why many of these elite mechanics have a deep appreciation and respect for the marque. As for practicality...Ferrari and Lamborghini is a moot point. The Germans and their great automotive offerings are so far ahead in this aspect that any discussion is pointless.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Taek
He was talking about owning a Cobra replica/continuation, built by AC Cars that was called the MK-IV not a Ford MK-IV like the one I own.

Stickanddice · Nov 28, 2003

Napolis said:

Taek
He was talking about owning a Cobra replica/continuation, built by AC Cars that was called the MK-IV not a Ford MK-IV like the one I own.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up.

I stand corrected. Apologize for the hasty assumption.

Cheers

ILMAESTRO · Nov 28, 2003

Napolis, My dream would be to own a Ford MK IV like yours, a Ferrari 330 P4, and a Porsche 917 to complete, that would be awsome!

allanlambo · Nov 28, 2003

ILMAESTRO said:

Napolis, My dream would be to own a Ford MK IV like yours, a Ferrari 330 P4, and a Porsche 917 to complete, that would be awsome!
Click to expand...

LOl! Just keep dreaming!

WILLIAM H · Nov 28, 2003

I own sports cars of several makes, Ferrari 512TR, 86 Lambo Countach 5000QV, 68 & 93 Corvette & a 500hp + Mitsu 3000GTVR4.

The thing that is so easy to nitice when comparing the 512TR to the others is that the TR works as a seamless system, likes it almost alive, whereas the other cars are all sort of clunky & they may be fast like the Countach or perform well like the severely modded VR4. But none of them feel like an integrated system like a 512TR. I'd love to try a 993 or 996 Turbo, I'm sure they probably feel more like the TR

308930G · Nov 29, 2003

ILMAESTRO said:

For the record, I would like to clarify my opinion about lambos, I do like the early front engine V-12 models and I love the Miura, it has to be one of the prettiest car ever built despite some mechanical shortcomings. I do not care much for the Countach and subsequent models, they are flashy and unpractical. V-8 models are uninteresting and cheaply made at best. No comparaison with let say a Dino or a 308 of the same vintage. Prices reflect my opinion as well!
Modern Lambos are Audi designs and as such are supposed to be very good, but they have nothing in common outside of the name and the somewhat uncommon shape with the previous models.

All the past V-12 models shared the same motor issued from the 350GT of 1964. In different bore and stroke iterations. With some more developpement, It could have been a very good motor but the company was always short of money and short on R&D. This is why they are considered fragile and unreliable. I said earlier how they tested a particular motor, they ran it all out for an hour on the bench, If it made it, it was ready for production, if it did not make it, they beef up the part that failed.
The story is that Enzo once told Ferruccio to go back and make tractors for which he was more suited. Truth or false I don't know. Take the early Miuras, which had a common sump between the motor and the gearbox, you missed a gear and goodby to the motor. It was corrected later on with the SV. Interestingly, a lot of older models have received the separate sump and gearbos set up. The gearbox arrangement of the Miura is rather odd and ferrari used a much better and much more reliable system with the Boxer which in my view is a much much better automobile.

I do not hate lambos, I am just not a fan, this is my personal opinion. I just thing there are a lot of better cars out there, Ferrari being one of them!
Click to expand...

Ilmaestro, again you do not know the truth. You think that the Lamborghini V-8's are cheaply made compared to the Dino or 308's. Well, I'm here to tell you that you are wrong again. As an owner of a 308 and a Jalpa, I can definitely say that the Jalpa has a much higher level of quality. Keep in mind that I LOVE my 285hp 308.

Sorry if the fellow Ferrari owners would cringe. I can walk into my garage and testify. The Jalpas interior is styled to a much higher degree. And there's more room to boot. Everywhere.

Cheaply made? Check out the quality of the leather and it's stichting. Then check out the amount of room in the rear trunk. I know these things do not matter much in an exotic, but if one wants to compare, here's the unbiased truth. Ask the guy who own's one. Or both.

A/C works better in the Jalpa. Heating too. The windows go up and down at a reasonable rate. Enough of the superficial stuff. Handling is better. There's alot more TORQUE. And more HP. From the carbed 308 to the QV, any Jalpa will handle it w/ ease. Read something. All of the articles dealing w/ the Jalpa bear this out.

To say that the V-8 Lambos are uninteresting can only be said by folks who have not driven one. Hooray for the one's who buy one at a great price. (I'm one of them). Even if you have to sort one out, the added prices are still in the high 308 territory. They are easy and inexpensive to reliably modify to over 300hp.They weren't that popular for alot of reasons. Who cares. Hey, they only made 419.

Park one next to a 308 and see what happens. In fact, park one next to your mondial, and your 4 seater will fade into the distance. Just like it would on the track.....

groovzilla · Nov 29, 2003

some porsches are slower.....

allanlambo · Nov 29, 2003

Im still laughing....a Mondial! LOL

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