Ferrari watches thread : From vintage chronographs to partnership with manufacturers

I would be VERY suspicious of that watch. And that price is ridiculous.
Nathan

 

+1

 

No mention of provenance, from whose collection did it emerge, has it been auctioned or traded before?

 

Where to start on that? It's never a good sign when the "signed" card that is supposed corroborate the watch is an obvious fake. Plus, the "Ferrari" logo inscription and the typeface for the Ascari inscription are absolutely IDENTICAL to a veritable flood of these watches that appeared about ten years ago. In addition, they were often Vetta watches with the same prancing horse printed on the dial and none of them had any established provenance whatsoever. All told, I feel secure in saying that someone had a good time buying up old Vetta, Lemania, and similar chronographs (that are widely available in Italy for EUR 1000 or, very often, less) and taking a pantograph engraver to them. I feel equally secure in saying that this watch is absolutely consistent with those. I would be extremely suspicious of any watch where the purported value lies primarily in an inscription and there is nothing that provides concrete support. Inscriptions, such as this, are just way too easy to fake.

 

I remember that. There were a lot of them on Ebay. And as you say, far too easy to fake the engraving.
Nathan

 

I don’t think the above brings much to the table.

To own a watch presented to Ascari by Ferrari is such a wonderful idea. Yet, to sell such a watch I would use an established auction house or reputable dealer who would in essence put their own reputation on the line. I would get the letter from Ferrari authenticated by an expert. Going down such a route would cost me in terms of commission yet such authentication would bring me a higher selling price.

To me, eBay is not the medium for this kind of transaction.

 

By the way, I hate to be a Party Pooper.

 

Not so much activity here, so I thought I'd add a couple of curiosities.

This one turned up while surfing, no idea of provenance or anything else.


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I bought this one for my son when he was a sprog. I wear it myself quite a bit when a more rugged watch is called for. Nothing special, a quartz. It was really nicely packaged as well. I liked the spoked wheel & calliper design

Yeah, I just noticed the calliper has "relocated" itself, must get that attended to

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This looks nice, but is definitely not a legitimate Ferrari watch of any sort. Ive seen many "Dino" pieces just like this. There are a number of sellers/dealers on eBay and probably other venues who buy & customize old watches, some are good brands and some are not. They recondition them to some degree and then have the dials customized with paint and decals such as this one.

 

I'm not an expert on any of the Ferrari watches, but based on where that particular one was being sold, the stamped logos on the underside, and serial number, I suspect that is indeed a legitimate watch.

https://www.classicferrariparts.co.uk/shop/ferrari-dino-1970s-watch/

 

I would definitely concur with Marshall's assessment above. In addition, a simple Google search for "Beware Ryan Bushell" will reveal additional information regarding where this watch is being sold.

 

I'm not convinced. There are many fakes on the market. The critical text & logos are not stamped on this one. I've examined the photo of the case back as well as five others on the vendors website, and all that have Dino etc on the backs appear to be laser engraved, not stamped or cast. That's why the recessed surface of the engraving is rough - that happens with laser engraving.

Unfortunately this type of thing is, and has been done by many unscrupulous parties trying to pass of fakes for originals. I've seen it many times. There are plenty of 'Frankenwatches' out there. The Dial on the one you showed also looks like it was poorly restored or newly made on an old dial, it has the tell tale signs of paint build up around the number sticks, cheap and typical. Other Dino dials on watches this vendor has are also very questionable.

It's very odd that there is no watch manufacturer name and no mention of movement, etc. for the non Watra Brand watches the others the vendor offers. Also, since Ferrari generally did not associate a Ferrari logo badge with the Dino's it also seems a little odd that this would have such markings together on the back.

And then we have this same vendor who has a total of SIX other "Dino" watches similar in style, yet with much different dials, different cases, different backs three with, and three without the suspect Ferrari Dino engraving, etc. Typically any car mfg including Ferrari would have pretty much gone with one brand and one style for a watch back then, and also a better more well known brand. There are too many variations and suspect issues here, which makes no sense at all if they were legit. Watra shown for two of these is a relatively low end watch. The vendors descriptions for each are identical and very weak/poor, and leave out any and all information to substantiate these. I just don't believe they are legitimate.

Links and photos below:

Link to the vendors web page showing SIX different "Ferrari Dino" watches.: https://www.classicferrariparts.co.uk/?s=dino+watch&numberposts=6&post_type=product&results_hide_fields=

https://www.classicferrariparts.co.uk/shop/ferrari-dino-1970s-watch-5/
https://www.classicferrariparts.co.uk/shop/ferrari-dino-1970s-watch-4/
https://www.classicferrariparts.co.uk/shop/ferrari-dino-1970s-watch-6/
https://www.classicferrariparts.co.uk/shop/ferrari-dino-1970s-watch-3/
https://www.classicferrariparts.co.uk/shop/ferrari-dino-1970s-watch-2/
https://www.classicferrariparts.co.uk/shop/ferrari-dino-1970s-watch/

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I've also noticed that CFP have some other Ferrari watches which actually appear to be the real deal, with more photos and half decent descriptions... but... there are some others (not the Dino's) they show with the same laser engraved backs, really bad dials, and very poor descriptions which artfully avoid the areas of provenance, or much about anything. Same as the fake vintage Ferrari watches on eBay. I find it very disappointing that this vendor mixes the good with the bad, and in doing so this makes me weary of buying from them.

 

Why would you say that "based on where that watch is being sold" ?

That company has had its issues in the past.

Here's just one example....

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/beware-vintage-ferrari-parts-dealer-ryan-bushell-classic-ferrari-parts-uk.531725/

Proceed with caution.

 

And, starting with post #39 here:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/who-on-ferrarichat-said-the-dino-tool-kits-are-up-to-10-000-00-usd.214415/page-2

As you said, watch out...

 

Well, like I said, I'm no Ferrari/Dino watch expert! To stamp the back and serialize it seems a lot of effort to go through for a watch that doesn't sell for that much money. I mean, this is a sub $1000 watch. To me, that's like counterfeiting a $1 bill, just not worth the time and investment. I guess some people do that.

As far as why I said "based on where that watch is being sold" is because I was unaware of their reputation. I bought a manual/book from them in the past, when it arrived it wasn't the one that was pictured and the cover had been cut with a razor blade and taped back together. I immediately contacted them, he was very apologetic and claimed the wrong item was sent in error and he would send the correct one. A week later, he couldn't find the correct item. So, he refunded my money and sent me a return shipping label so I didn't even have to pay to send the wrong item back.

For me, that's a good experience. I mean, sure, I was bummed I didn't get the manual/book I wanted, but in the end, it didn't cost me anything but a little time. A few months later I found it again from a different seller, this time in tact.

However, based on those other shared threads, I'll be sure to steer clear of them in the future! Same with FerrParts. Any others I should be weary of??

 

Serial numbers shown on the backs of some were actually from the original watch manufacturer they were not added later by the engraver. It doesn't cost much once the art & set up are done to laser engrave the same thing over and over. There are unfortunately are plenty of people who will do things like this for not a lot of money, and some of these are sold in other venues.... volume sales add up.

 

That is in line with my experience with Ryan Bushell. He appears to be consistently and deliberately sloppy in a maneuvering sort of way, hoping that no one will notice. If you do, he claims ignorance and does the minimum necessary to make you go away. While he may not be the absolute worst seller I have ever heard of, in no way is he what I would call a good one.

 

Yes, unfortunate, but also very, very true. Worst one all, junk from one venue has a way of resurfacing all over the place. If you think that what was once a cheap eBay fake never turns up at a "high end" venue, think again. At this point, I feel very confident in saying that engraved Ferrari watches are a complete cesspool of fakery. If it does not have airtight provenance, one would be wise (and, in all likelihood, correct) to assume the worst.