Sounds good to me - I am willing to help in anyway I can.
Hopefully there can be a membership for life of for a significant period say 10 years happy to pre-pay if I dont have the hassle of paying every year
Rob, I agree with more moderation. Most of us are thick skinned, but occasionally you reach a point of no return, as I did last week. I agree with the aggressive control of abhorrent behavior. I agree with Mike, above, that you are losing more folks by allowing arschlechers to post filth...but I am also sympathetic to the fact that you & I are Libertarians, and prefer to live & let live for as long as possible. A fine line for you to walk, IMO, and for the most part, you have done a very good job. I disagree with charging a fee. I joined this community because of the shared passion, the shared interests, and the ability to make new friends & learn stuff...and to possibly add what little knowledge I have to help others. Paying a fee to a site that takes ads is fundamentally against why I joined FC, and I believe that it will feed into the "elitist snob" preconceived notions many folks have about Ferrari owners. My $0.04...
Rob, Ferrarichat is a fantastic Ferrari message board. However, I'm afraid that by requiring paid subscription, you are going to create a 2nd ferrari owner site with less traffic, page views and information. Also, sooner or later, someone will leverage the same message board software to create another free ferrari message board. When this will happen, your community will be fragmented. I think it could be more beneficial to increase sponsorship and find other ways to raise some cash such as targeted advertising. After all, you have a very affluent crowd visiting your site daily and I'm sure most members would agree to answer a few questions (like 1 or 2) every once in a while about what they like to buy. AW
Omg, Mikey is still crying about me? Can someone give him a kleenex? Can't wait to signup for the paid portion of the site, see all of you in there.
I suggest a sponsor/buddy member ship as well. I am unsure what I will do, but Mako sure is helping. Racist posts, continuous, unabated putdowns, and blatant 'entitlement' like the <<Can't wait to signup for the paid portion of the site, see all of you in there>> BS needs to go away. Mako, you're a gutless, lying troll, I've proven it, and you need to STFU. The fact you'd flame ANYONE in this thread speaks to your immaturity, disrespect of our host, and complete lack of recognition of what this thread is about. BTW, you fired 1st, to quote AL<<buttmunch>> RTF thread you clicked on...move your lips if need be. Perhaps I'm flaming a flamer, but I am sick of their BS. FWIW Lee yes, I sign my real name, like men do. Mako is on ignore, but I see his posts quoted. Is he worth quoting? can you disable that if enough people complain? I am wasting my time, I think. Sad. At least he is stupid enough to flame during a post on how to improve the site. Anaencephalic sloth.
Make sure the moderators for the regional boards are regional. That way they will understand special circumstances.... e.g. making someone from California a moderator in the New York forum might prevent general name calling, but won't help get important threads about meetings/events stickied.
Rob, I've been preaching to everyone here to use the "Ignore" feature. I, personally, have quite an extensive group of users on my "I" list and continue to add new ones almost daily. That said, it would be so much nicer if you would just bite the bullet and... BAN THE TROLLS ... as soon as they make themselves apparent. At $15 a pop, how many times do you think they will reregister under new user names?
Rob, If you need a moderator for the "race" forum I'll gladly volunteer. Not sure I would have much to do but if some of those nasty McLaren Hooligans show up I'll be glad to ban them In all seriousness though I'd be glad to moderate on that forum if you feel it's needed or are assigning specific moderators by forum topic. Regards, Jon P. Kofod www.flatoutracing.net
I disagree! I'm a very private person, and I have no desire to post to thousands of members what I do, what I have, SN's of cars I own or have owned, what other cars I've owned etc. etc. I believe that all anyone needs to know is that my name is Craig(Skip)Williamson, I own Ferraris, and that's about it. Rob, I think a paid subscription fee is the way to go, without a lot of verifiable information being required, other than email address and true name. I think that the trolls and other troublemakers, won't be willing to cough up the fee just to antagonize others. No offense meant Frank (red81308), but I disagree with your logic. I do think though, that no one should be able to post 'anonmously', as we recently went through a rather uncomfortable situation with a poster in the Chicago forum, with the moniker of 'NoWives'. This was wrong, and the culprit was found out. It turned out that he was a high ranking official in our local chapter of the FCA. Rob, I don't know if it's doable, but is there a way to bleat out anyone who isn't using real name only?
Rob Some excellent posts by Mike550, Wayne and others. The reality is the negative remarks and confrontational attitudes of the trolls are limiting potential valued members from participating, as a newbie who would want to get into a flame war with the trolls for posting something they disagree with such as "I really like my 308, its something I have wanted all my life and I am very proud of it", the troll squad would come in and bash him for not wanting a Lambo,or ask why he couldn't afford a so called better newer model, we have a few thugs here that act as if they rule this place thru ridicule and intimidation. Ban the trolls Jeff R
Rob, I am fine with the proposed setup. Only thing I ask, would it be possible for paying members to have more PM storage? Thanks. PS hope you get my mail.
I with you on that! I'm a bit of a private person as well. I've made a few good friends on this forum who have my personal info, by my choice. It shouldn't be public information. Rob, everything looks fair and reasonable to me . It's clear changes are needed and your proposals look well thought out.
Ditto here Tyler, personal info should only be given to those you know and trust. In today's world, who knows what info could subjugate you?
I can't understand why everyone has to be so stubborn about the register and we can't co-operate on it. I guess I'll have to finished adding the 10,000 plus SNs I have sitting in my spread sheet to make a point. http://www.ferrariforum.net/register/ 3,030 + 10,000 can anyone beat 13,000? How much is going to just be a repeat of what I've already done?
I don't want my ex-wife to know I'm here. Chances are very slim that allanlambofiedler - whom I will hereafter refer to as ALF - has ever baited or trolled anybody and everybody on a Lamborghini enthusiast forum, including those whose family history takes a dim view of expressions with "Heil" as the salutation, then proceeded to call those who are rightfully offended, a Moron - at best. Instead of saying, "I'm sorry if you were offended, but I'm not good at Jackie Mason imitations," he calls a damn good, real man - Sfumato, a Moron. That's just one of several hundred examples of unnecessary baiting, trolling, flaming and name-calling on the part of ALF. Chances are equally slim that Mako99 - another frequent adversary of many a Ferrarichatter - baits, trolls or calls Lamborghini enthusiasts on Lamborghini boards whatever he baits, trolls or calls Ferrari enthusiasts on Ferrarichat.com. Frankly, the viewpoints of what either ALF or Mako think a Ferrari is supposed to be, or how much they just love the most bombastic designs, are what the rest of us on Ferrarichat can agree and disagree on without flamewars, as we also figure out Ferrari and it's competitors, along with Ferrarichat itself, with a little help from our friends, right here on Ferrarichat.com. If they can't leave of their own free will, then when the 3rd swinging strike is called, they're out. As far as I, and apparently many Ferrarichatters are concerned, they each already have 2 strikes, with many a foul tip. Kick 'em out of their own game, and if they come back for more, kick 'em out again, no questions asked. After all, their mindset seems to be, "Fnck 'em if they can't take a joke." A chorus sings back to these schmucks, "Same to you, Pal." Do that, then we, as a community, with all our natural, ingrained and educated differences and similarities which surely exist, can get back to the purpose of Ferrarichat.com. FerrariChat.com Community Improvement Plan = Ferrarichat.com, love it or leave it.
Rob, excellent plan, I support it. Regarding trolls, yes, some are just pure annoyances, and I tend to just ignore those threads. As others have mentioned, some people complain about them but then they egg 'em on. I don't think that I'd regard Allan Lambo as a "troll" -- he DOES own a Ferrari in addition to his Lamborghini; I've met him (and ridden with him) on one of my trips to Hawaii. Regardless of him seeming to like "stirring things up" here on FChat (does that automatically classify one as a "troll"?) , he was very friendly and gracious when we met up in person. In any case, I think when you have specific guidlines for what's acceptable, and there's enough well-intentioned folks who have time and energy to help moderate, FChat will be even better than it is now.
With regards to ALF: Jews don't call Jews "hitler, kikes, etc." ever. We don't joke about lampshades, soap, or communal showers. Visit some camps, read some books, have some sensitivity to our ancestors. I am not a 'moron' or an 'idiot' for being offended. Blacks don't use the N-word much. Hip-hop made it ok, but I have many friends who will not allow their children to use it, as it should be. We have people blowing up busses full of children, buildings full of families, airliners full of innocents. I care for children whose families sometimes neglect, mistreat, or ignore them. I feel badly for the millions of all faiths trapped in the middle of zealots, both Arab and Jew, Republican and Democrat, Serb and Croat. It needs to stop somewhere...they are cars, people. ALF may be a swell guy, but he crossed a line. As did some others. If you want to wallow in excrement during YOUR off hours, feel free. I don't. Some of my family died at the hands of a diatribing zealot, and I won't accept comparisons to this. Again, I am sorry for what ALF's father went through, but he wasn't the only one, and it does not give him or anyone the right to **** on beliefs, dreams, heritage, or happiness of anyone here. I have mixed feelings about this board still, and am dumbfounded by the passive nature of many. Like I said, they are cars, and I'd give'em all up for my family, or another. I may, if the cost here is too great. FWIW, Lee
Here are some responses... Privacy Information - I will not require full names or a profile. Shortly I am bringing back the full name to each of your posts if you have filled it out in your profile. It's optional though. Trolls & banning - There are obvious trolls and that's a no brainer. I don't think those like Mako and Allan are obvious trolls. There are hundreds of others that slip in and out of trolldome here and there, even me. We'll start doing temporary bans and if that keeps happening with one user we'll ban them permanently. As I said, we'll be posting clear expectations on user behavior. It will be strict, if that policy was in place in the past then I can think of users like me, Allan, Mako, NNO, Maranelloman, Bruce, and many others that would get little hand slaps. Zero tolerance folks! Because of the inability to really ban a user as they can just register again under a new email that leads to the following topic... Subscriptions - The first phase of subscriptions will still have Free users and subscribed users. There will be no reason not to still participate in FerrariChat.com. If you are against paying, then just stay in the Free user group. If you think you add much value and there's no reason you should pay to give that value, then please apply for the consultants program. I can imagine over a 100 users in that program. There is no reason to leave in this first phase based on subscriptions alone. However, this leads to a possible second phase of subscriptions. I don't want the board to go here and I know most users don't either, but if heavier moderation and the first phase of subscriptions don't improve the community quality where we want, then we will remove posting ability from Free users. At that point you either browse for free or you have to pay to post. Then I will ban trolls all day long at $15 a pop. For those against subscriptions, I understand 100% as I was on the internet starting back in 1994 and agree the beautiful thing about it is it was free. However, the reason for subscriptions is purely personal and opportunity cost related for me. I'm tired, I'm worn out, and it's no longer worth the time that is required. At this point we have 18 sponsors and I appreciate them very much. They have allowed me not to loose too much money at this gig. However, the amount of sponsors revenue is not perfectly correlated with the number of users I've found out. There's a little correlation, but I'm not getting 25% more revenue for 25% more headaches. The number of headaches and time required is perfectly correlated to the number of users. I'm going to introduce a revenue component that is correlated to the number of users. If I'm going to have a 10,000 user headache, then I can hire people to help. It's also important that the value I get from FerrariChat.com is not less than my opportunity elsewhere. Trust me, I value my free time to hunt, fish, workout, and travel very much. Since FerrariChat.com I havent been able to enjoy my other loves as much. If I introduce subscriptions, I don't care if some people leave and I don't care if the site goes to 100 users. FC is the oldest, FC is the most respected, and FC is the largest today. FerrariChat.com is not going anywhere ever. I will still be doing this in 40 years whether there are 10,000 users or 10 users. I'm not doing it for the money, I already have a job, I'm doing subscriptions to make it worth my time and to be able to afford to free up my time. Right now I can't afford to pay anyone to take over some of my responsibilities. Also, everyone needs to get out of the frame of mind that FerrariChat.com is just a message board. FerrariChat.com is a community, it's a resource, it's a club, it's a classified ad site, and soon it will have articles. Tell me what FML, FCA, FOC, Cavallino, and Forza do that FerrariChat.com can't some day? A message board isn't worth $15 a year to a user, a community that gives you value in many different ways is IMHO. It's easy, you'll either be on board or you won't. There's people that are members of FCA and FOC and there are those that aren't. There are those that subscribe to FML, Cavallino, and Forza and there are those that don't.
Lee, WELL SAID, man. BRAVO!!! My dad won the CMH liberating survivors from those camps. I am with you 100%. Rob, your site, your rules. Please let this be my application for a Consultant role, focused on tracking your Ferrari: car prep, mental prep, physical prep, and what skills to work on & how, and what mistakes to avoid. Please let me know. Thanks! -Dave
Rob, I like what you are trying to do here to keep the quality high in this great forum for Ferrari fans. I've been on here for 1 year and have learned, been entertained and had the opportunity to meet some fantastic people with whom I share a common interest. This resource is, IMHO, too good to be totally free. At the same time I wouldnt want to see people not be able to get involved due to cost. With this in mind I would support a system of "user levels" that would allow free access to some of the site, with a fee for more "in depth" usage. For those of us that monitor this board almost daily and often contribute I think paying for it is fine. I beleive that $15 is perhaps a little low for such a great service that you provide. I would even be willing to pay double that and still beleive that it is the biggest bargin in the world. As for the folks who like to stir things up here, well they just come with the territory. They are best ignored. If you consider the volume of posts here It isn't too big a percentage causing trouble. As an avid fan of this board I want to thank you for putting so much effort into FChat. I'm sure I can't imagine how much hard work this is to run daily. I'm behind what ever plan we need to do as a community to keep this the best place it can be. 007 - Brad Proud sponsor of the FerrariChat.com Race Team
Rob - how much of the charge is as a tool to combat trolls and how much is you wanting to cover costs/ make money from F-chat? I personally don't object to a charge, but I would worry about loss of valid contributions if non-paying members couldn't post at-all. I'd favor a post limit per day (say 3 to 5?)/no pictures type of limit. I don't see the charge helping stop trolls totally and as you say, I think there is sometimes more of a problem with "old-timers" on the board responding to the baiting. I think the answer is mostly some sort of approval process over new addresses - like must provide a working email address (and not [email protected]). And them some really serious Moderation. For example I personally think NNO should do some time for his absurd tirade last week. Inexcusable stuff that would have earned a life ban lots of places on the web. Keep up the good work. Dan
