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Hello,
Thanks Rob, we are very glad to be a part of this community.

Martin and I are looking forward to working with this group, answering any questions we can, and helping with any braking issues that may come up.

We are sure that we currently have and will be introducing new braking solutions for Ferrari cars as well as other sportscars. I only hope that this group wont hold it against Martin that he was an engineer at Porsche!

Thanks agian Rob.

Eric

 

CONGRATS ERIC!!! Great people and gosh darn it, wish they made a system for the 308 (hint hint)

 

Congratulation and welcome Eric! We look forward to you and your team's input.

 

Eric

Welcome - I have seen your site previously in my search to eventually upgrade my 348 brakes. My wife has a Boxster S and I can't stand the idea that she has bigger, better brakes than my Ferrari....

Cheers
Kevin

 

328s hint hint..

 

Well it looks like we might have our first assignment!

We have looked at the possibility of developing a full replacement system for the 308-328 cars before. The concerns that have held us back to this point are; are there enough potential customers to justify the development and production? What price range are 308 owners looking to pay for a 4 wheel system? And this cost question relates to the brand of caliper used in the system. Expensive brand calipers such as Brembos will add considerable cost to the system, whereas a Wilwood (for example) caliper set will work as well and cost less, but will 308 owners prefer to see the Brembo logo?

These are the types of questions that we can get answered on this forum I think.
So lets hear from 308 owners, tell us what you want, and if all the considerations can be met, we can develop exactly what you want.

The same goes for all Ferrari models. Tell us what you want and we can see if it can be worked out.

By the way, for 360 Challenge racers, we have replacement rotors available. The rotors are heat treated and balanced, and work with the standard challenge mounting bells. We will be running a test of these rotors this month and we expect them to be every bit as good and better than the dealer supplied Brembo rotors, at a much lower cost.

-Eric

 

Eric,

No need to see the Brembo name PROVIDED the unit operates well and is of a quality. Price: peg it at $4k or a touch less for front and rear and MANY FOLKS would be stupid NOT to buy it. Price it at $5k and you are in the same ballpark as TAROX and others and would need to prove why they should spend the extra green.

IMPORTANT: Make it an easy bolt on with Alu capped floating rotors and offer either solid or slotted (avoid the BLING holes, but if market demands...).

Me? i'd pay $5k or even $6k for front AND rear with $6k being with emergency brake system. The TAROX system looked good but was not fully sure about ease of installation due to reading differing opinions. Other systems were also questionable about installing, did not offer floating rotors, or other things.

Went with Brembo because:

1. a known good

2. well engineered

3. floating rotors with alu centers for lighter rotational mass

4. Slotted option

5. ease of installation

6. kit came COMPLETE so no hassles with buying other things to install it


Hope this helps and if you do a full front and rear system PLEASE let me know. Am not married to Brembo, though getting them to make matching (but not floating ) slotted rear rotors has been interesting. But hey, so is the life of a one-off project.

As for how many will sell, remember that the 308 will soon qualify for Historic Racing and when that happens i have a feeling sales may go up

 

Thanks Steven, we will begin the process of development.

I would ask that anyone out there with a 308 who is interested in a brake system check in and drop me your opinions on price point and functionality.

Thanks again!
Eric

 

Sorry Rob,

Yes, the 355 Challenge rotors will be available very shortly. You will be the first to get the information release.They will also come heat treated and balanced, and should be very cost effective.
We had some contracts for 360 units, so we started with them.

The 360 challenge cars will be off the "dealer only" parts requirement at years end, and so many of them will find their way into new cup series and so on. We plan to be ready with challenge discs for them.

Also to be available probably by months end will be thermal barrier coated titanium pad shields, which will fit between the pad and caliper pistons to effectively keep the brake fluid temperature from boiling. These units are for the OE calipers only, not the challenge calipers (which come with titanium piston caps for the same reason). These shields are perfect for cars that see track-day time and club events. We know of many people with 355-360 cars that have boiled fluid when using high temp race pads.
Titanium has 1/3 or less the amount of conductive heat transfer as does steel. Which simply means that titanium does not conduct the same amount of heat as the steel backing plate of the brake pads. The thermal barrier coating increases the resistance of heat dramatically. So the package together is a very effective way to keep your fluid temperatures in check, and will allow you to use a higher friction and heat coeficient brake pad.

I will have specifics on heat resistance as well as pricing and availability very soon.

-Eric

 

I put Brembo drilled rotors on my 308 QV's stock brake system a few years ago to add a little cooling for track days (and I like the way they look). I use Porterfield R-4S pads which have been great. Although I rarely get fade anymore with my style of track driving, when I let a "pro" drive it, it will indeed heat up enough to fade. I've driven a friend's 308QV that has Brembo Big Brake fronts and I like it, and have wanted to replace my fronts with something similar. $2500 for the fronts for a car that is tracked just 3 or 4 times a year seems like a lot, but I can still probably justify it anyway (wifey says do anything I want that makes the car "safer"!!). However, I think that most 308 owners don't have deep enough pockets to want to spend that much on fronts, and the "Brembo" decal doesn't really matter if you can come up with a more cost-effective solution. I would NOT be willing to give up the emergency brake (yes, mine DOES work now) to get a 4-wheel setup.

 

Thanks Mike,

Exactly the type of input I am looking for.
We are considering the options currently. For a road system we would definetly include a parking brake, for a racing system we will eliminate it.
The costs and complexities for both systems we are considering now.

Be shure to check your drilled rotors for cracking after track sessions, as the rapid heating and cooling cycles with your R4S pads can cause cracking around the drillings. You may want to try to add brake ducting and use plain or slotted discs.

Thanks again!
Eric

 

Hey guys,
Have a look at the rear Testarossa replacement we have just finished the prototype for.
The difference in quality is obvious. Also have a look at Martin fearlessly attacking an Italian job after years of Porsche work. Brave soul.

The Testarossa units will be available very soon.

Eric

 

The Brembo drilled rotors seem to be holding up quite well. One of the things I did as an alternate to brake ducting was to remove the dust backplates on the brake assemblies -- it lets a lot more air get to the rotors.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with as a lower cost but performance-effective brake upgrade... I'll hold off getting the Brembo kit until then!

 

Quite definitely! If you need someone to help out with the 308 versions, I'd like to be at the top of that list.

 

Eric,

I would like to increase the braking capabilities of my 77 308 - both fade resistance AND controlability.

I spend most of my time cavorting around in the tec threads, so missed your invitation to input on the 308. I understand the 308 has the highest number of cars produced and has a large number of performance enthusiasts.

I respect the well deserved reputation Brembo has earned for engineering and quality - but - would like to move beyond what they offer in terms of disc size.

What size pistons does the Brembo 308 kit use??

To be fair, I have been looking at the QV London kit that used the 355 disc and caliper, (caliper has 36 and 40 MM pistons for an approximate hydraulic advantage of 25.6% - if my numbers are correct). I still do not know the disc size and so cannot figure the leverage advantage.

To help balance the increase in front braking, can you suggest a manufacturer of superior quality discs/hats, that might be willing to supply a 1-2 inch larger disc/hat for use with a stock caliper and mounting spacer that moves the rear caliper out 1-2 inches. This would seem to be a relatively low cost way to move beyond just a "small" improvement and still be somewhat balanced f/r. I understand that manufacturers of front kits are obliged to not go too far in hydraulic/mechanical improvements lest they leave the rear brakes in the dust, (sliding so to speak).

A feeble enquiring mind would like to know,
chris

 

Hi Chris

We are going to be producing a 308 kit very soon in 2 versions, a "race" system that will not have a parking brake, and a similar system that will include a secondary parking brake. The expected completion of these systems is still TBD. Lots of projects cooking right now.

To answer you questions, the Brembo caliper used in the Brembo GT kit has a 313 x 28 mm rotor, and the caliper has 36-40 mm pistons. This front kit works very well, the only thing I did not like about it was that the pedal travel increases slightly due to the increase in piston area in front. Also that I could not develop a rear to match using any available Brembo components, the supplemental Brembo rear parking brake caliper would have added more than $1000 to the kit price. Brembo was unwilling to develop any special componenets at the time for the rear as the business model could not support it. This front kit adjusts the brake balance to the front more than stock, but not to a level that is unsafe. Though I do recommend anyone who uses it change the rear pads to a higher friction coeficient to regain some brake torque to the rear.

Ah if only it were so simpke to just find brackets and rotors to throw on...
But...There is not a direct replacement rotor with matching mounting dimensions and more diameter that I am aware of. the 308 rotors are quite unique. Also, the parking brake cable and mech would need to be able to bracket and stretch to the larger rotor-not an easy task.
Also it is not advisable to use rotors larger than the OE caliper was designed for as the pad shape will not cover the rotor correctly.

The easiest way to to improve the braking performance and feel is to put the right pads in. Of course this does nothing to help heat capacity of the rotors, but the pads will not fade. The iron rotors will just run hot and wear faster. Not a bad sacrifice considering they are relatively cheap components. The right pads will help with initial bite, modulation feel and of course fade resistance. Of course, the other trade-off with pads is of course the NVH issues that are unavboidable with performance compounds.I can recomend some pad brands if you like.

Hope that helps, stay tuned, I hope to have some real solutions soon.
-Eric