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FERRARIS AT MOTOR SHOWS

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by PAUL BABER, Dec 4, 2015.

  1. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    I disagree. 2677GT is clearly a 1st series car. It is a fresh discovery that they really seem to have planned a facelift for the 2nd series, which was then withdrawn (or postponed) for a reason or another and finally the only difference between late S.1 and early S.2 cars is the trunk support changed from telescopic to swing type.
     
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  2. bernardo66

    bernardo66 The Crazy Cat Man
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  3. torquespeak

    torquespeak Formula Junior
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    Dave, I've dug out old magazines from 1961 about the Motor Show, but as yet nothing that shows what I believe is your car. There is an Autocar issue that shows a side-on image of a 250 GTE 2+2, but I'm pretty sure this is a library image / press photo (not one from the show stand).

    Secondly, can I applaud you for a moment for (a) having the good sense to ask for expert opinion via this forum (I've lost track of the number of individuals whose first appearance is to boldly claim to know exactly what they have - only for experts to disgree completely), and (b) having the good sense not to turn a 250 GTE in need of a full restoration into a 250 SWB replica!

    -Ed
     
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  4. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Just out of curiosity, was this "Speciale" actually built at Pininfarina facilities or was it (too) contracted to Scaglietti ?
     
  5. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie
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    Pretty sure it is a Pininfarina built car. The "f" badge above the Designo di Pininfarina badge is the tell tale of a Pininfarina built car from a Ferrari to a Ford Focus Cabriolet (they built those too :) ).

    My pic of the car during Monterey week 2016 with the "f" badge marked.

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  6. daytonaman

    daytonaman Formula Junior
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    Timo I looked over the car too in 2016. Lots of phillips screws - you know what that means
     
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  7. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Matthew, I wouldn't be sure the "f" insignia alone guarantees the entire coach building having been conducted at Pininfarinas.

    I've been involved with restorations of (non-Ferrari) "Special Edition" (vintage) cars carrying same insignia and featuring aesthetic, cosmetic and/or other luxury(?) appointments/details designed for them by "Pininfarina", but weren't actually built (or even modified) by them or anywhere near Italy. :rolleyes:

    I've also heard/read of other special edition, "designer"-model (vintage) cars commissioned by various manufacturers that were sent to Italy in semi-finished state, but the actual hands-on coachwork wasn't necessarily done by the "design-house" itself.
     
  8. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    From what I remember Pininfarina only built one 365 GTB/4 and that was the 1968 Paris show car. They had their own interpretation of the design; which some referred to as a 7/8ths scale Daytona for the red Paris car.
     
  9. PG1964

    PG1964 Formula Junior

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    Are you sure? In the Italian period magazines the car represented (not at the show, but in the streets of Milan) is the 007S, which has the trafficator stick in front of the door. The 015S has the air vent in that position, moreover the 015S born in dark red and the 1949 Geneva car is in light color in the video. My opinion is: the car in the Ferrari stand is the 013S. What do you think?
     
  10. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    One can barely see 007/S on that video, but it is there, behind 0004/M at 0:32 - a dark car with light colored interior. Cannot see the trafficator on the few photos I have from Geneva, but it must be there!

     
  11. PG1964

    PG1964 Formula Junior

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    I know the trafficator or the air vent aren't visible in the video. But the color is and it' isn't a dark color but a light one. If the car in the stand was the 015S, it would be almost black and not grey as like as in the b/w film. That's the reason I'm asking for.
    I checked also the Suisse magazines of the period and there isn't a single picture of the stand. The Ferraris are represented through the factory photos only.
    A further investigation is necessary and maybe we can find something knowing the production or the delivery dates of the cars. The 015S, for example, was delivered in July 1949, so it couldn't be in Geneva on March.....
     
  12. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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  13. PG1964

    PG1964 Formula Junior

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    Take a look to the spider. Isn't white or ivory? So, why is grey in the video? Because the film is old and damaged and digitally reproduced. I restored the color palette of the film: the spider is white now (see also the shadows on it) and the coupè is medium grey. So it could not be dark, while the 007S was originally dark. I think the car in Geneva is another one. If you know the production date of the 007S we could exclude it from the list for sure.
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  14. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    007 S:
    The XIX Geneva Motor Show was held 17-27 March 1949.
    The factory sold 007 S on the 28th June 1949 to first owner Cantiere di Portovenere S.p.A., a company domiciled at Piazza delle Oche 1 in Genova, Italy.
    The factory issued their Certificate of Origin for 007 S on the 2nd July 1949.
    The first registration was on Genova license plates "GE 45650" on the 7th July 1949.

    Marcel Massini
     
  15. PG1964

    PG1964 Formula Junior

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    Thank you Marcel, so the 007S could not be at Geneva in March as I suspected before...
    My opinion is it was the 013S there, am I correct?
     
  16. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    007 S could VERY WELL BE at the March 1949 Geneva Motor show!!
    And AFTER the show it went back to Italy where it remained for a few weeks and was then sold to the first owner.

    Marcel Massini
     
  17. PG1964

    PG1964 Formula Junior

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    Sorry, but I don't understand. When the 007S had been produced?
     
  18. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Prodotto PRIMA del mese di marzo 1949. Già nel mese di Dicembre 1948.

    Marcel Massini
     
  19. PG1964

    PG1964 Formula Junior

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    Ok, this makes the difference. It's the kind of data I was looking for, because I was thinking the same about the 013S.
    Now we know that the dark car photographed in the streets of Milan isn't the 007S, unless it was repainted for the Geneva motor show. Thank you very much!
     
  20. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    Only 007/S had semaphores : then the 1949 Geneva Show car was necessarily 007/S...

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  21. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    You cannot "restore" a color palette like that. To my eye your "restored" version is much worse than the original professional footage which is pretty damn good concidering the terrible lighting conditions.

    Geneva car is 007/S, there is absolutely no question about that. Several excellent photos exist taken both in the show and then afterwards sitting in a factory corner waiting to be sold and delivered.
     
  22. PG1964

    PG1964 Formula Junior

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    I didn't see them, where did you find them?
     
  23. PG1964

    PG1964 Formula Junior

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    Ok, but did the 013S have them too? I don't know....
     
  24. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    In the Tipo 166's book on page 35. Also in the Mr Prunet's book about Ferrari Road cars...
     
  25. PG1964

    PG1964 Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2010
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    Ok thank you, but at page 35 the Touring body isn't recognizable: only the front is visible. I'll see on the Prunet's book I don't have here.
     

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