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Ferraris en Venezuela - Branko remembered July 2, 2011

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Aardy, Nov 29, 2009.

  1. Enzo Anselmo Ferrari

    Enzo Anselmo Ferrari Formula Junior

    Apr 4, 2009
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    Lovely! :)
    What are the two other cars?
    458 isn't it?
     
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  3. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
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    I say Enzo and an F40 :)
     
  4. omd78

    omd78 F1 World Champ
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    +1

    Gr. Martin
     
  5. 246tasman

    246tasman Formula 3

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    #154 246tasman, Jan 12, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
    I'm pretty sure those are inside plug Tipo 112 as used on the 250MM, maybe the 225S, 250S, and 250GT LWB upto 0443 (Pourret).

    You can see the intake ports are paired and this is to give room for the inside plugs. When one carb choke per cylinder is required you get a straighter inlet tract by using 4 barrel carbs (IF4C) where the chokes are closer together than can be achieved with separate carbs, so this is what they did.

    The TR ports are evenly spaced as can be seen by looking at the inlet manifolds in your photo. This means 6 x 2 choke carbs can be used and the inlet tract is kept straight.
     
  6. Enzo Anselmo Ferrari

    Enzo Anselmo Ferrari Formula Junior

    Apr 4, 2009
    497
    France
    You're both right!! :)
    For the F40, it's cubic ( :p ) and the Enzo is too heavy to be a 458!
    Thank you guys ;)
     
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  8. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Tipo 130 cams were commonly used on racing engines, weren't they? Originally desgined for tipo 130 engine (290MM). Best wishes, Kare
     
  9. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

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    branko
    #157 elmotorizado, Jan 12, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
    Beatiful car, Marcel could I use some of your pictures in my forum? with the proper credit of course. I mean pictures of cars that were in Venezuela.
    Thanks
    branko
     
  10. 246tasman

    246tasman Formula 3

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    #158 246tasman, Jan 13, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2010
    First customer TR #0710 had these same 130/17229/30 cams, timing 46/78/72/45 in, 45/79/75/49 ex

    Other 130/17229 cam data from TRs out of interest:
    TR58 #0728 had 130/17229/239, 45/76/71/42, 45/75/74/42
    TR59 #0766 has 130/17229/230, 42/72/72/39, 43/75/70/41

    Both pretty similar to the first one, and the TR58 looks slightly milder. All from the Finn TR book

    Pourret has 130/17229/30 cams listed in 250GT LWB & SWB and even GTO from 1957 up to 62-64

    These figures are from the build sheets and they look like actual measured timings (rather than theoretical) as they are not quite symmetrical when any advance is taken into account
     
  11. ted walker

    ted walker Karting

    Feb 7, 2009
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    Marcel re post 150 has the car been re-nosed ??? since leaving South America .
     
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  13. buurman

    buurman Formula Junior

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    #160 buurman, Jan 13, 2010
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  14. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Yes, and fully restored in the 1990s. Then sold to Australia, on to Germany, on to England, and then on to California. Restored again. It was temporarily fitted with 250 GT engine #1027 GT (internal #020 D) but the original engine #1037 GT is with the car.

    Marcel Massini
     
  15. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

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    branko
    Will thanks for answering, the notes I found, have a quote saying that the #130/17229/30 were installed in 0749, 1037 and 0758.
    branko
     
  16. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

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    #163 elmotorizado, Jan 13, 2010
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  17. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

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    #164 elmotorizado, Jan 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Caracas 1955 Julio Pola in car #42 and Harry Shell in car #8, does anyone have a serial number for Pola´s car? that car remained in Venezuela I believe.
    branko
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  18. Tom Roland

    Tom Roland Formula Junior

    Feb 14, 2006
    355
    This (42) is the car that was going to reappear in Venezuela with Lollobridgida.
    0534 IMO

    Thanks for posting, Branko
     
  19. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mr. Prunet:
    Why don't you think it is 0562 M?

    Marcel Massini
     
  20. Tom Roland

    Tom Roland Formula Junior

    Feb 14, 2006
    355
  21. 246tasman

    246tasman Formula 3

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    Excuse me, but what do you mean by this?
     
  22. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie
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    thank you for that picture! We have never seen that one before of our car being driven by Schell before Castellotti took over the driving duties. We are also not familiar w/ Sr. Gutierrez. Is there a way to contact him? Please get in touch with me via PM if you are able to provide contact info for him.

    As for the #42 car, my father remembers putting some notes together regarding the Pola car but will have to dig them out. His memory is that he and Seielstad could not figure it out w/ what they had at the time. The team's Sportiva Gestione report also does not help - it does not refer to the Ferraris by s/n, but by driver and displacement. The note in the displacement column of the report for Pola's car says "Bast." instead of 2 or 3 liter. I have no idea when the MB motor went into 0534 . . .
     
  23. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn F1 Rookie
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    #170 Boudewijn, Jan 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This was posted on the Venezuelan site and refers to Pola carrying a 3 liter engine.
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  24. Tom Roland

    Tom Roland Formula Junior

    Feb 14, 2006
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    Sorry I misread your question. The reason it is not 0562 is clear: 0562, as you know, had the latest 1955 Scaglietti style with high sides. So I stick to 0534 for the Pola car.
     
  25. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

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    branko
    Mr Gutierrez was a turn marshall for that race and in 57 he raced a Maserati 200SI with #52
    , I met with him 2 days ago and scanned all his photos, the one posted is the only one with your car.
    The car with the MB engine is still in Venezuela and 0534 in Italy.
    branko
     
  26. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

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    branko
    Mr Jsalgatti posted a couple of pictures of Pola´s car in the Venezuelan forum in the 1000 kms de Buenos Aires and they list the car as 0562.
    branko
     
  27. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    #174 Marcel Massini, Jan 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It is my personal opinion that the car with race number 42 at the 6 November 1955 GP Venezuela is 0562 M. As is well known chassis 0562 M is the car in which Alberto Ascari was killed at Monza 26 May 1955. The wreck was subsequently rebuilt by the factory, re-engined with a type 111 Series II 500 Mondial two-liter motor with internal #15. Joao Rezende Dos Santos then raced this car 3 July 1955 at the Bolzano-Mendola hillclimb and placed 4th. 14 July 1955 the factory sold it through Carlos Kauffmann to Joao Rezende Dos Santos who initially kept it in Europe. Dos Santos then raced it 17 July 1955 at Reggio di Calabria and placed 3rd. One week later, 24 July 1955, he raced it at the Messina 10 hours (with co-driver Oscar Cabalen) on race #2 and placed 2nd OA. Then the car was brought to Venezuela where it was raced 6 November 1955. I believe that 0562 M was raced at the Sebring 12 hours in March 1956 by Julio Pola and Enrique Muro (race #34), entered by Touring Club of Venezuela. And then by Ettore Chimeri at Caracas 1956 on race #58. Subsequently by Lino Fayen at Caracas November 1957, now with the Mercedes 300 SL engine. Guido Lollobrigida then raced it in 1959 and in 1960 0562 M was raced by Jacques (or José?) Olivier, now with a Chevrolet engine. Here's a snippet out of German magazine "Auto, Motor & Sport" showing Count Wolfgang Berghe Von Trips and Lino Fayen looking into the engine bay of the Ferrari-Mercedes at Caracas 1957.

    Marcel Massini
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  28. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    #175 Marcel Massini, Jan 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I took this photo of 0534 M at Toni Franco's shop in Maranello, Italy, in September 1983. The car had just arrived from Venezuela. Note LHD and shape of tail.

    COPYRIGHT MARCEL MASSINI
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