FF and F12 Steering

I'm about to finalise an order for an FF. In the back of my mind i still can't get the F12 out of my system so my dealer invited me down to drive both cars.

I drove each car 3 times, FF then F12, FF then F12 etc. both in Sport mode, about 20 miles in total in each car.

It was dry and about 20 C or 70 F so ideal conditions.

There is no doubt that both of these cars are simply astonishing to drive. The FF can be floored and gives the driver great confidence. The F12, in these dry conditions has noticeably more oomph due to the weight saving & power increase and you still have you be a little careful in the lower gears but i found it manageable.

Here's my dilemma. The steering on the cars felt different when under hard acceleration. I'm not talking about steering ratio (i think the F12 has a faster rack?)but strangely in the FF when pressing on hard sometimes i felt the steering wheel pull from side to side sometimes under hard acceleration, but not at all in the F12. To me it felt as if the tracking geometry might be out on the FF?

I asked the dealer if the tracking was out on the FF and he didnt think so. He mentioned that the car had been loaned to a customer previously so it was possible but there was no kerb damage to any of the wheels. The F12 steering was perefct, it did not pull side to side at all, not once, on the same roads, driven the same way.

Before i close my order i'd just like to know if others have experienced this with their FF too, is it to do with the 4RM or is it just likely that the tracking was out on their demo?

Bizarrely i was expecting the FF to feel more assured, but came away feeling more confident driving the F12 due to this issue. I know in the wet the story would be different!

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

 

Could it have to do with the fact that the FF is a 4x4 and the F12 RWD? Although from what I recall, the FF is RWD at lower speeds, on full acceleration, as the rear wheels loose some traction, some of that power might be transferred to the front wheels, and that's what you're feeling through the steering wheel. The F12 will probably have the purer feel as there is never drive to the front wheels.

 

In my experience driving the cars back to back, you can feel the FF FWD kick in under certain conditions. At first, it feels a little unexpected, but with some miles it becomes predictable, and seems natural and solid.

A full RWD experience like the F12 is going to feel different, to be sure. Not to mention all that hp through 2 wheels which is its own experience.

 

It is possible that it was the 4RM, but if that is the case i found it very intrusive. I was probably using 80% throttle from 20mph through the gears up to 80mph+. As i said, it was dry and warm and no issues whatsoever with the the F12.

I'm really hoping it was a steering geometry issue as it has put me off a little.

 

That would be my guess. I sometimes sense it on mine. I ascribe it to the front transmission initiating some torque to the front wheels. No big deal.

 

Did both cars have the same tires? I switched from the PZeros to the Michelin PSS in my Maserati and found that there is more tramlining in the Michelins. This will cause the issue you experienced.

 

Thanks for the replies. Both cars had P-Zeros and less than 2000 miles. Funnily enough DaveMc, that's what it felt like, tramlining.

If it was the 4RM then it felt quite exaggerated. The road where it occurred was pretty much straight. As the road was dry and warm i wouldnt have expected the 4RM to have kicked in especially as the roads were smooth and in good condition. After all the F12 had no problem. I thought the FF 4RM system was effectively 'disconnected' until it was required?

 

+! this is the most likely variable affecting you.

I've had an F12 and 2 FF's. The F12 is definitely a very tight, RWD feeling on the steering. The FF is obviously a bit heavier. With the 4RM, you can feel the front torque when applied, but it's not torque steer; in fact, the torque is metered out to reduce the car going "off line". Under high power and aggressive steering (e.g.. an autocross, tight corner) you can absolutely feel it, but not as feedback through the steering wheel requiring a correction.

I would guess 1) tire type 2) tire inflation 3) alignment 4) bent/out of balance wheel. FWIW few dealers check alignments on new cars from the factory; it's worth it IMHO to pay the $150 and have your shop align the car, it CAN make a substantial and tangible difference in how it feels and steers.

Said otherwise, our FF is a phenomenal high speed cruiser, it just loves to track on the road and the steering is great (perhaps a bit over boosted, as with all current F-cars). It's also a surprisingly effective slow-corner exit machine and phenomenal in low grip (dry or wet).

One other phenomenon with the FF that we noticed - maybe we're too anal - is that compared to other cars, you sit far behind the steering axis, so until you calibrate your sight picture with your hands, you might tend to turn a bit early or too much until you adjust.

 

Most def on the alignment.
And also the description of the sight picture. I need to recalibrate my brain every time I go from FF to 458 or vice versa -- different worlds.

 

Thanks again for all the replies. I checked the TPMS when I was driving the FF and pressures were correct. The tyres had good tread too. As you guys say it must be down to alignment. I am very conscious of the steering feel in cars (from my history of owning Delta Integrales!) and know that seemingly minor geometry adjustments can make a huge difference to the way a car drives and feels.

As an aside question, everyone tells me that the F12 is a handful in the wet. If I buy one instead of FF. I'm not expecting to get even 60-70% power down and I wouldn't even try but is it that bad? I'm assuming that these guys who say it's a handful are using WET on the mannetino in these conditions or are they still trying to drive in SPORT?

 

Dunno if coefficient of friction differs from european to US streets. On our streets I have had not one scary situation in the wet. I usually drive CT-off in the dry and Race in the wet.

Think it is obviously that your right foot is the less down the more your steering wheel is on full lock.
The other way around, while you are pushing your steering wheel straight you can increase gas.

 

An update re the FF steering. I drove another FF yesterday, 2015, similar miles as the other car. No such steering problems at all under full acceleration(and on fairly uneven surfaces) so i guess as you guys said, must have been the other cars geometry. Thanks again for the help.

 

There you go.

 

I recall reading that in 2010 or 2011, on the pre production FFs ... there was a light that went on with the 4RM, and it was on A LOT ... for torque vectoring and grip ... it's well integrated and there is no way you would feel it under any but the most dramatic of conditions.