FF/Lusso compared to BMW V12 (M760)

Len Howell · May 20, 2024

I currently own a Testarossa, but due to age and a back injury, I need a vehicle with easier entry and exit. My primary car is a BMW M760, and I've been driving various BMW V12s for nearly three decades. I'm considering the Ferrari FF or GTC4Lusso, as they seem to offer great value in the used market for V12 enthusiasts like all of us. However, after a short test drive, I'm unsure of the significant advantages in character and performance to the BMW M760. On paper, their performance is quite similar, but their appearance, style, and image are obviously vastly different.

Maintenance on my last BMW 760Li, a 2011 model, was exceptionally low—probably less than a 3 series BMW, aside from the fuel consumption. It was perfectly reliable for seven years.
So my question is: are their any Ferrari FF/Lusso Owners that own or have experience driving a BMW V12 that can offer their opinion as to how they would compare the vehicles other than the obvious. Would you own both vehicles?
Thanks, Len

LussoV12fan · May 21, 2024

Hi. I can't speak for the BMW product but I have owned and driven the S class for over 12 years. Assuming that BMW 7 series is the corresponding model to the S Class. We currently have a 2022 S580.

I find the S class to be the ultimate blend of luxury and technology and would never buy a Bentley or Rolls though I love the exterior design of the wraith. I think the S - Class kicks A@# !!

Having said that, the GTC4Lusso invigorates me while driving it , in a way the S cannot. The intense Aural experience is just phenomenol. I'm considering a second one for our winter home. My wife thinks I've gone bonkers.

I do think both cars have value in your garage. I'm guessing the BMW has the same riding on air with a heated massage experience that the S Class delivers with near zero exterior noise to disrupt listening to music or participating on a conference call.

Len Howell · May 21, 2024

LussoV12fan said: ↑

Hi. I can't speak for the BMW product but I have owned and driven the S class for over 12 years. Assuming that BMW 7 series is the corresponding model to the S Class. We currently have a 2022 S580.

I find the S class to be the ultimate blend of luxury and technology and would never buy a Bentley or Rolls though I love the exterior design of the wraith. I think the S - Class kicks A@# !!

Having said that, the GTC4Lusso invigorates me while driving it , in a way the S cannot. The intense Aural experience is just phenomenol. I'm considering a second one for our winter home. My wife thinks I've gone bonkers.

I do think both cars have value in your garage. I'm guessing the BMW has the same riding on air with a heated massage experience that the S Class delivers with near zero exterior noise to disrupt listening to music or participating on a conference call.
Click to expand...

Yes, well said. Having owned two MB S65’s and presently a SL65, their motors are similar power to the V12 Ferrari, but are boosted by two turbos, not naturally aspirated like the FF/Lusso. If you like the S580, take a MB S65 for a spin, and tell me what you think compared to the Lusso. The BMW M760 is similar acceleration to the LUSSO, but with the comfort of the S580.

dgoldenz94 · Jun 4, 2024

Have you tried getting in and out of one yet? It still sits fairly low, though about 6-8 inches higher than a TR. My dad is 75 and couldn’t get in and out of my FF.

It’s not a screaming V12 but a Wraith or Dawn will make you feel like a total boss and is an absolutely incredible car to drive. I’ve had many sports cars and the Wraith has been one of my favorite cars overall. Totally different experience but 10/10 car IMO. They also sit high with massive doors so they’re extremely easy to get in and out of.

Len Howell · Jun 4, 2024

dgoldenz94 said: ↑

Have you tried getting in and out of one yet? It still sits fairly low, though about 6-8 inches higher than a TR. My dad is 75 and couldn’t get in and out of my FF.

It’s not a screaming V12 but a Wraith or Dawn will make you feel like a total boss and is an absolutely incredible car to drive. I’ve had many sports cars and the Wraith has been one of my favorite cars overall. Totally different experience but 10/10 car IMO. They also sit high with massive doors so they’re extremely easy to get in and out of.
Click to expand...

dgoldenz94 said: ↑

Have you tried getting in and out of one yet? It still sits fairly low, though about 6-8 inches higher than a TR. My dad is 75 and couldn’t get in and out of my FF.

It’s not a screaming V12 but a Wraith or Dawn will make you feel like a total boss and is an absolutely incredible car to drive. I’ve had many sports cars and the Wraith has been one of my favorite cars overall. Totally different experience but 10/10 car IMO. They also sit high with massive doors so they’re extremely easy to get in and out of.
Click to expand...

Thank you David, for the type of qualified opinion I was seeking. Although the Wraith has many mechanical elements in common with the M760, the appearance of quality materials, fit, and finish is exceptional.
I look forward to test-driving one, although my greatest anxiety is in opposition to what I assume is in many RR buyers' favor, the perception of wealth associated with ownership. How fortunate we are to have such choices in life.

Given the sole option of only one vehicle, would it be the Wraith or FF? ( yes, difficult to divulge on an F chat line, understandable if you choose to use the usual dilemma “given the choice of which child” ……

dgoldenz94 · Jun 4, 2024

Len Howell said: ↑

Thank you David, for the type of qualified opinion I was seeking. Although the Wraith has many mechanical elements in common with the M760, the appearance of quality materials, fit, and finish is exceptional.
I look forward to test-driving one, although my greatest anxiety is in opposition to what I assume is in many RR buyers' favor, the perception of wealth associated with ownership. How fortunate we are to have such choices in life.

Given the sole option of only one vehicle, would it be the Wraith or FF? ( yes, difficult to divulge on an F chat line, understandable if you choose to use the usual dilemma “given the choice of which child” ……
Click to expand...

The Wraith is on another planet of fit and finish versus a 760, it is simply an incredible car with everything finished to the highest degree you'll find in any car (other than maybe a Phantom or Mulsanne). The ride quality and how smooth the suspension is really is mind-blowing, I have not experienced another car like it. I know this is Fchat but as much as I loved driving the FF, the Wraith is a better overall car and much easier to drive around town at lower speeds. The FF always wants to rip your face off with acceleration and loud noises, the Wraith makes you want to just relax and enjoy the ride and you could care less if you're stuck in traffic. The Rolls is also less likely to run into major mechanical issues since it won't be driven as hard as an FF/Lusso, and doesn't have the PTU problem or DCT issues (though you can always buy CPO and not have to worry much about those). .

The Mulsanne Speed is also a pretty awesome car but much larger than a Wraith, closer to the size of a Phantom. I have not driven one myself but am definitely intrigued by them, especially considering the absurd level of depreciation they've taken to their current levels. Unfortunately I think it may simply be too big for my garage, or an extremely tight fit.

If you get a Rolls, make sure it has the Bespoke Audio option. It's the best OEM sound system I have heard in any car and I'd say only about ~20% of them have it. You can tell whether it has Bespoke Audio or not by how the speakers look. Cars with Bespoke Audio will either have yellow speaker cones for 2014-2016 models or more highly finished metal grilles for the 2017+ cars.

I never got any snide looks or rude comments driving mine, but I also live in Las Vegas where seeing a Rolls or Ferrari is extremely common. Either way, I don't care what other people think but I understand that some do and don't want to be perceived in a certain way, though I don't think a Ferrari is going to change that versus the RR.

I'd say it boils down to what you want. If you want a screaming V12 that drives like a sports/GT car, get the FF/Lusso. If you want supreme luxury with the best of the best quality, get the Rolls.

Len Howell · Jun 5, 2024

dgoldenz94 said: ↑

The Wraith is on another planet of fit and finish versus a 760, it is simply an incredible car with everything finished to the highest degree you'll find in any car (other than maybe a Phantom or Mulsanne). The ride quality and how smooth the suspension is really is mind-blowing, I have not experienced another car like it. I know this is Fchat but as much as I loved driving the FF, the Wraith is a better overall car and much easier to drive around town at lower speeds. The FF always wants to rip your face off with acceleration and loud noises, the Wraith makes you want to just relax and enjoy the ride and you could care less if you're stuck in traffic. The Rolls is also less likely to run into major mechanical issues since it won't be driven as hard as an FF/Lusso, and doesn't have the PTU problem or DCT issues (though you can always buy CPO and not have to worry much about those). .

The Mulsanne Speed is also a pretty awesome car but much larger than a Wraith, closer to the size of a Phantom. I have not driven one myself but am definitely intrigued by them, especially considering the absurd level of depreciation they've taken to their current levels. Unfortunately I think it may simply be too big for my garage, or an extremely tight fit.

If you get a Rolls, make sure it has the Bespoke Audio option. It's the best OEM sound system I have heard in any car and I'd say only about ~20% of them have it. You can tell whether it has Bespoke Audio or not by how the speakers look. Cars with Bespoke Audio will either have yellow speaker cones for 2014-2016 models or more highly finished metal grilles for the 2017+ cars.

I never got any snide looks or rude comments driving mine, but I also live in Las Vegas where seeing a Rolls or Ferrari is extremely common. Either way, I don't care what other people think but I understand that some do and don't want to be perceived in a certain way, though I don't think a Ferrari is going to change that versus the RR.

I'd say it boils down to what you want. If you want a screaming V12 that drives like a sports/GT car, get the FF/Lusso. If you want supreme luxury with the best of the best quality, get the Rolls.
Click to expand...

Much appreciated and a knowledgable reply. I have always believed if you

dgoldenz94 said: ↑

The Wraith is on another planet of fit and finish versus a 760, it is simply an incredible car with everything finished to the highest degree you'll find in any car (other than maybe a Phantom or Mulsanne). The ride quality and how smooth the suspension is really is mind-blowing, I have not experienced another car like it. I know this is Fchat but as much as I loved driving the FF, the Wraith is a better overall car and much easier to drive around town at lower speeds. The FF always wants to rip your face off with acceleration and loud noises, the Wraith makes you want to just relax and enjoy the ride and you could care less if you're stuck in traffic. The Rolls is also less likely to run into major mechanical issues since it won't be driven as hard as an FF/Lusso, and doesn't have the PTU problem or DCT issues (though you can always buy CPO and not have to worry much about those). .

The Mulsanne Speed is also a pretty awesome car but much larger than a Wraith, closer to the size of a Phantom. I have not driven one myself but am definitely intrigued by them, especially considering the absurd level of depreciation they've taken to their current levels. Unfortunately I think it may simply be too big for my garage, or an extremely tight fit.

If you get a Rolls, make sure it has the Bespoke Audio option. It's the best OEM sound system I have heard in any car and I'd say only about ~20% of them have it. You can tell whether it has Bespoke Audio or not by how the speakers look. Cars with Bespoke Audio will either have yellow speaker cones for 2014-2016 models or more highly finished metal grilles for the 2017+ cars.

I never got any snide looks or rude comments driving mine, but I also live in Las Vegas where seeing a Rolls or Ferrari is extremely common. Either way, I don't care what other people think but I understand that some do and don't want to be perceived in a certain way, though I don't think a Ferrari is going to change that versus the RR.

I'd say it boils down to what you want. If you want a screaming V12 that drives like a sports/GT car, get the FF/Lusso. If you want supreme luxury with the best of the best quality, get the Rolls.
Click to expand...

dgoldenz94 said: ↑

The Wraith is on another planet of fit and finish versus a 760, it is simply an incredible car with everything finished to the highest degree you'll find in any car (other than maybe a Phantom or Mulsanne). The ride quality and how smooth the suspension is really is mind-blowing, I have not experienced another car like it. I know this is Fchat but as much as I loved driving the FF, the Wraith is a better overall car and much easier to drive around town at lower speeds. The FF always wants to rip your face off with acceleration and loud noises, the Wraith makes you want to just relax and enjoy the ride and you could care less if you're stuck in traffic. The Rolls is also less likely to run into major mechanical issues since it won't be driven as hard as an FF/Lusso, and doesn't have the PTU problem or DCT issues (though you can always buy CPO and not have to worry much about those). .

The Mulsanne Speed is also a pretty awesome car but much larger than a Wraith, closer to the size of a Phantom. I have not driven one myself but am definitely intrigued by them, especially considering the absurd level of depreciation they've taken to their current levels. Unfortunately I think it may simply be too big for my garage, or an extremely tight fit.

If you get a Rolls, make sure it has the Bespoke Audio option. It's the best OEM sound system I have heard in any car and I'd say only about ~20% of them have it. You can tell whether it has Bespoke Audio or not by how the speakers look. Cars with Bespoke Audio will either have yellow speaker cones for 2014-2016 models or more highly finished metal grilles for the 2017+ cars.

I never got any snide looks or rude comments driving mine, but I also live in Las Vegas where seeing a Rolls or Ferrari is extremely common. Either way, I don't care what other people think but I understand that some do and don't want to be perceived in a certain way, though I don't think a Ferrari is going to change that versus the RR.

I'd say it boils down to what you want. If you want a screaming V12 that drives like a sports/GT car, get the FF/Lusso. If you want supreme luxury with the best of the best quality, get the Rolls.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much. I've always believed that for an accurate and qualified review of a vehicle, one should consult an owner who has experienced several other vehicles for comparison. Road test reviewers often miss the "substance" or "soul" of a car, in my opinion, because they simply haven't spent enough time with it. Personally, my true evaluation of a vehicle doesn't settle in until I've driven it for about a month. While I cannot financially manage both the Wraith and the FF simultaneously, retaining my MB SL65 with Renntech upgrades will likely suffice for continued thrills.

My home north of the US is becoming more socialist every year. Attitudes are beginning to mirror those of Finland regarding any display of wealth. However, my Testarossa seems to strike a different chord, likely due to its perception as a ‘collector car.’ Your thoughts on the minimal differential between the FF and the Wraith are likely valid. It is ironic that one can drive around in a million-dollar Hemi Cuda Convertible and receive nothing but praise, yet justifying the FF, Wraith, or Mulsanne for their sheer automotive excellence at a significant depreciated price presents a social perception challenge, despite their excellent value.

papou · Jun 5, 2024

Len Howell said: ↑

Much appreciated and a knowledgable reply. I have always believed if you

Thank you very much. I've always believed that for an accurate and qualified review of a vehicle, one should consult an owner who has experienced several other vehicles for comparison. Road test reviewers often miss the "substance" or "soul" of a car, in my opinion, because they simply haven't spent enough time with it. Personally, my true evaluation of a vehicle doesn't settle in until I've driven it for about a month. While I cannot financially manage both the Wraith and the FF simultaneously, retaining my MB SL65 with Renntech upgrades will likely suffice for continued thrills.

My home north of the US is becoming more socialist every year. Attitudes are beginning to mirror those of Finland regarding any display of wealth. However, my Testarossa seems to strike a different chord, likely due to its perception as a ‘collector car.’ Your thoughts on the minimal differential between the FF and the Wraith are likely valid. It is ironic that one can drive around in a million-dollar Hemi Cuda Convertible and receive nothing but praise, yet justifying the FF, Wraith, or Mulsanne for their sheer automotive excellence at a significant depreciated price presents a social perception challenge, despite their excellent value.
Click to expand...

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