Have you read the JD charts lately?.......MINI is dead last and people fork out 30k for those overpriced unreliable fun cars and resale is quite strong. It's all about perceived quality, people associate Mini with BMW although they are far from the same quality and reliability. 40k for a Mini Cooper S?..........um no thanks.
Bdelp makes good points. They are intelligent, unlike most of the idiotic comments I see in response to articles on the car. Here is what I just posted on the Truth About Cars: ......................................................... Here are what I would consider fair complaints: It looks ugly to me Its too small for me Other than that? Safety? Excellent crash test scores MPG? 33/38 with real world already coming in at 40+ Ride? With a short wheelbase, no one ever said it rides like a Buick. But very few have anything but praise for ride and handling. Power? 101 hp is low. But, it feels quick and is fun to drive. Reliability? Fiat had a bad track record in the US 28 years ago. That is ages in the automotive world. Today they are reliable enough to be very popular in Europe. Also, they are sold here with 3 year 30,000 mile warranty and free maintenance. Fiat also road tested the North American version for a million miles. Smart failed so this will? What? A Smart and a 500 share very few things in common. A Smart is way smaller, no one ever accused it of being pretty, lousy ride and handling and awful transmission. Not a fair comparison at all. It looks like you couldnt afford anything more expensive? If thats your concern, dont go to a car dealer; see a therapist. ;-)
More PR on Fox news: nothing earth shatteringly new but interesting. http://video.foxsmallbusinesscenter.com/v/4593400/fiat-motors-selling-in-select-us-cities/?playlist_id=87018
First, few people care about what JD power says... they buy what they want. If the only look at JD Power, everyone would just buy a Honda. Second, there is no question that Mini's are overpriced. I know I own one. It's my biggest single complaint about the car. But, Mini's still sell and resell values are good. You are absolutely right about a Mini S costing 40 grand. I looked at trading mine in and was shocked at how expensive a similar model would have cost me. I said "no thanks" and I'm waiting to see the Abarth as a replacement. But, I've owned probably 20 Italian cars including 7 Fiats (850, X 1/9's, 124's, 131's, 3P coupe -- even a Siata Spring) so I'm not your typical new car buyer. Third, I don't think the Mini has a reputation for being nearly as unreliable as Fiat. Look, if Fiat does not make any attempt to alter the US perception of what kind of products they make, they are in for a long and disappointing road. Three years of unlimited warranty? I got 4 on my Mini including free scheduled service -- and that was in 2002. Fiat needs to do better.
I want a Fiat 500 for my new commuter car! It looks cute and cool and would be great way to drive to work without spending a fortune on gas. That would leave budget for me to buy a weekend car like a Ferrari 458 Italia or F430 Scuderia. Plus both cars would be able to fit into a 2 car garage
Nobody might read JD Power but it does speak volumes as to how a strong design and strong marketing can influence people to shell out for an overpriced "British" icon, which I might add is the same critique you are giving the Fiat. The only advantage Mini has over the Fiat is not so much in terms of packaging or reliability, but rather THEIR LINK TO BMW. That speaks volume to the average consumer who considers spending 40K on a Cooper S convertible. Unfortunately Fiat is linked to Chrysler dealerships, and that will be their biggest challenge. A Fiat 500 Abarth SS is far more desirable and cooler than anything Mini makes.
This thread is fascinating, because it's about the marketing, or lack thereof, of a car that admittedly interests all of us. Yes, it interests us all, 'cause it's Italian and iconic, and this is "Ferrarichat", after all. Now, I am on both sides of the fence, as I am happy to tie up 500 bucks on my Abarth deposit, but I also have a seperate subscribed thread on my frustration with the 500 Sport's rollout, and the fact that I walked from getting a new one and instead put my 20 grand in a used M3 for the next year or so. I've been happy to see that this thread has remained on point, more or less, and has focused on, specifically, the return of Fiat to the U.S. market as a business discussion, rather than worrying about the specifics of the car in question. And while I've been inclined to think I haven't been influenced by marketing in wanting an Abarth, it's simply not true...though marketing takes oh-so-many forms today. Why do I want an Abarth? Simple: - I saw it reviewed by Clarkson on TOP GEAR, and I've re-watched on YouTube endlessly - I watched Michael Schumaker get tromped by Carl Edwards in the Race of Champions as they piloted identical Abarths (amazing how little press a NASCAR over F1 victory got) - I've read about it in the British rags for ages now. - I've seen various F1 icons mention the Abarth as their daily driver. Now think about it....I've been influenced by EUROPEAN marketing (specifically British) to inform me of the existance of the Abarth and get me chomping at the bit for one. And if any of you don't think its marketing when a car is seen all over the place, allow me to sell you the Tappan Zee Bridge (sorry, the Brooklyn bridge is waiting to be delivered to a Prima Edizione customer, but I can unload the Tappan Zee today if you qualify for financing...) The whole point of this thread is that AMERICAN marketing has a very hard road to tred when it comes to selling Fiat to the non-enthusiast crowd. Vespa USA has done a great job with their product, but their target is not 50,000 units/year. It's going to be very interesting to see what happens here. As someone who came of automotive age in the late 80's/early 90's in the United States, I can only hope that the new Fiat doesn't go the route of Renault, Citroen, Lancia, Alfa Romeo, and, of course the old Fiat (or Pinanfarina, as it was sold in its last gasps....)
You are absolutely agreeing with me. Fiat NEEDS to get this message out and stop with the "cute" and "stylish" stuff because the car already is that. It's obvious. If you're looking for a Fiat, that's why you're going to go there anyway. BUT, to make you want to buy it, you're going to want to believe it's not going to be in the shop every week. That's the part they haven't even attempted to tackle yet.
I'll tell you why... I think we all believe the car will be a good one. We think that because we know about the really interesting engine and what it's done in Europe. And, we think it just looks cool and are sure it will drive like the Italian cars we love. We also know Fiat better than someone who's only heard the horror stories over the past 30 years. BUT, what DON'T believe is that the people running the show know how to get the proper message across to US buyers. And, without that, its just not going to sell. We don't want a Fiat failure. We want them to succeed. But, the way they are going, I have little confidence this experiment will last more than a couple of years before they throw in the towel again. That would be a pity.
Best 500 only Forum http://fiat500usa.blogspot.com/p/fiat500usa-forum.html Best for 500 info http://fiat500usa.blogspot.com/ Best Fiat Club http://www.fiatclubamerica.com/
Yup, you summed it up. "We" (Italio-philes) want this to work, and in our heart of hearts, we know it won't. And it pains us. So we analyze, complain and argue, hoping that someone (FIAT USA?) takes note and changes course.
Come on now. Don't you think this doom and gloom is a little premature? Call off your dogs and at least give Fiat a sporting chance here. I think the Prima Edizione was a brilliant marketing strategy, at least in concept. By putting the first cars into the hands of those who are most likely to say good things about them, Fiat can do some strategic product placement and generate positive word-of-mouth at absolutely zero cost. In fact, they got paid for it! I'll be the first to admit that the Prima rollout was botched, and PE buyers are rightfully upset about the lack of information, delays, and the fact that they weren't Prima by much, if any. That said, I don't think it's too late for their strategy to work. We're talking about a 2012 model here, and most buyers won't expect a 2012 to debut until at least late summer of this year. That gives Fiat six months to work out the kinks before the biggest part of the market takes any notice. The early adopters will put the car in the public eye while also serving as a test market. In the meantime, the sales and distribution process can be streamlined, service techs can be trained, and any quality glitches can (hopefully) be identified and fixed before Fiat advertises the cars to the rest of the public. As for those quality glitches, I think they will be few and far between. The one I drove seemed remarkably solid and well made, especially for the price. Fiat's reputation may come back to haunt them, (people hold grudges for lengths of time that never cease to amaze me) but more than one car company has turned their image around. Jaguar. Audi. Even the Japanese automakers had to fight that perception. Until at least the mid sixties, it was understood that "Made in Japan" meant junk: "Coming up on your right, the world-famous factory where the broken Japanese toys are made." Ten years later, they were a major player in the world auto industry. I happen to think a lot of that was timing, but the fact remains. I'm not saying that we should help Fiat sweep problems under the rug. Just keep the complaints objective and give the company a chance to make it right before turning into Chicken Little.
You can say it's "Chicken Little" but I say they are marching with the wrong people in the wrong direction. Maybe the sky isn't falling but it's also possible they are about to march off a cliff. You can't say things are going well. So, when are they supposed to get better? What's their primary marketing method now: Their website. Have you looked at it? What information can you get from it? The mileage? No. The warranty? No. The technical specs? No. The price? Well, sort of after you go to the configuration pages.' Here's Kia's Soul webpage. You mean to tell me they can't look at this and figure out what to do? It's not rocket science. http://www.kia.com/#/soul/explore/ The 500 has a completely new and amazing engine. Does it even go into any detail on what's so great about it? No. This is supposed to get people to want to go out of their way and find a dealer (oh, excuse me... studio)? The Prima campaign was supposed to get cars on the road to get people excited. Instead, they are late and you can just go buy a normal edition. Now, the first owners are upset because they went on a limb, bought a limited edition car and it's pretty meaningless. Who screwed up that one? Are they still working there because they shouldn't --- they just upset their most loyal customers. Good work! No, things aren't going well. They need to get their act together.
I think Laura is too green and not versed well in Fiat and it's US history, even with her closeness to the people in FLU. She comes from VW. While she has youth on her side and Fiat wants to get the word out the the newer generations of car buyer.. by viral marketing, web marketing, enthusiastic car owning "owner spokes people", she just doesn't have the (excuse the expression) balls for the job. She's smart, young and energetic with some good ideas that might sound good in a board meeting with the executives, but I feel she is way to green for the responsabilities this job demands and doesn't really have the "street savvy" and familiarity of US car dealerships, especially Chrysler dealerships. I don't even think she has fully embraced the European Fiat mentaility and marques history. She's a sheep thrown into a pack of wolves.. the industry will eat her alive, unfortunately she may take a succsesful brand re-introduction along with her in the process. .02 JD
A new class added to Targa Newfoundland w/ Fiat 500 written all over it. http://www.targanewfoundland.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1764
Jeff I think you nailed it. I was on the original marketing team for Daewoo Motor Americas Introduction back in 1998 and I told the VP, President and the Chairman that their marketing strategy was going to fail. 8 months later they were filing for chapter 11. Fast forward today the Chairman has been ousted, The President owns some small pot lot used car dealership in Lahabra, Ca and The VP is still there cleaning up the mess left behind....
If anyone wants one without a wait, there are currently 112 Fiat 500s listed for sale on Autotrader through dealers across the U.S. Primarily Sport models, but there are some Pop models listed as well: http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/searchresults.jsp?lastBeginningStartYear=1981&num_records=25&search_lang=en&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&search_type=both&distance=0&address=29708&marketZipError=false&make=FIAT&model=FIAT500&make2=&start_year=1981&end_year=2012&min_price=&max_price=&seller_type=b&transmission=&engine=&drive=&doors=&fuel=&max_mileage=&color=&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&keywords_display=&sort_type=priceDESC&body_code=0&certified=&advanced=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&showZipError=n&default_sort=newsortbyprice_DESC&awsp=false&systime=&rdm=1300668584324
After being told by the dealer last week that I could pick up the car this week... just found out today from them that they still don't have the license to sell Fiat, and they're "expecting" it this week. Sigh. I'm not impatient, I'm just disappointed by all the promises of delivery by Fiat AND the dealer that have not come to fruition.
So what are the details of the Abarth version? What is the price, hp difference, etc? And when is it going to be available?
Standard FIAT: 1.4-liter I-4 FIRE with Multiair 100 horsepower (75 kW) at 6,750 rpm 95 lb.-ft. (129 Nm) of torque at 4,250 rpm Abarth FIAT: 1.4-liter I-4 FIRE Turbo with Multiair 170 horsepower (128 kW) at 6,750 rpm 170 lb.-ft. (231 Nm) of torque at 3,000 rpm No pricing announced. Claims of 1st quarter 2012 release (probably highly optomistic.)
I take it the Abarths w/o Multiair are 135hp? Also do you know if the US is going to get Multiair only Abarths or both?
I've got my info from this site, which filters Chrysler P.R.: http://fiat500usa.blogspot.com/2010/01/us-fiat-500-abarthhow-much-horsepower.html It indicates the U.S. Abarth will be introduced with 170 hp (MultiAir only), up from the European 135hp/160hp versions.
