Fiat X19 vs Ferrari 308

yup these are pretty cool, but no targa top means no track driving without a roll bar.

 

When I first drove my 328 I thought, "this reminds me of my X19". The 328 is just a Fiat X19 on steroids. I recommend a X19 to anyone interested in a 328. I will give you all the same headaches at a fraction of the cost.

 

I guess I'm not surprised to see so many have owned these Fiats. In fact, when someone posts they got, or are contemplating a 308, I check the profile to see what else they have or have had. If there are Fiats, Lancias, Abarths, Alfas, or Maseratis in there then I figure that person is going to do just fine as a first-time 308 owner. If I see Vette, Porche, Hotrod, etc, then I figure that person is going to have a lot of surprises!

 

I have a 79 GT4, and my girlfriend recently purchased a nearly original 1974 X1/9. Both being Bertones, they are strikingly similar and oddly different.

They share a good bit - mid engine, Bertone style, separate engine cover & tail trunk, doorsill lockable trunk releases are the same part (though wired backward), flip lights and front radiator, rack and pinion steering, independent suspension, smae stock mirror, same door handles inner and outer, small, flickable...

The X1/9 has an engine from a Fiat 128, which was an econobox front driver. In 1974 the engine is a smogged 1300cc with a single weber, albeit no catalytic converter. It is anemic and slow, but blazingly fun. Once up to speed you need never slow down. Even with stock 145 series tires, handling is fantastic and steering feel near sublime.

The X1/9 engine is pretty hard to reach for certain repairs, and clearly shows that the car wasn't actually designed around the 1300 as the GT4 seems to be designed around the 3L. The distributor and fuel pump and front engine mount are especially egregious examples of poor fit and accessibility. In later X1/9s Fiat/Bertone cut an access hole in the fire wall to make reaching these items easier, and then an access hole in the trunk wall to make reaching the exhaust easier. A belt change isn't an engine-out decision, but other parts of maintenance are annoying. Other Fiats of the age are simpler to work on, and it shows that the X engine was stuffed into the wonderful body.

The targa top in the X is great, and stows neatly in the front of the car, leaving tons of luggage room. I toured the northeast a few years back in a borrowed X and 2 weeks of clothing, gifts and gear fit without hassle, even allowing room to temporarily steal a bride from a wedding to go for a backroad blitz. A friend's Boxster seemed more evenly matched than horsepower would make you think. Tossability has great advantages.

The X1/9 even has two features my Bertone GT4 only dreams of - a hydraulic clutch and a two speed heater fan! Why, for 40,000$ in 1979 this car came without high/low on the heater baffles me. It's not a big deal, but it is pretty funny than the low cost X1/9 has these options.

The X1/9's biggest drawback really is the power, but it's a sweet and ultra smooth mill. The problem seems to be that it's not a crossflow cylinder head, and is SOHC. That limits performace, and there's not much streetable horsepower available with modifications. A nice cam and dual carbs can make things better, but power comes at a high price if you want more than that. Parts are available, but there are some oddball things missing, like targa top trim and radiator overflow bottles.

Parts are available, and X1/9s are very available. Unlike GT4s, these cars aren't usually the crown jewel of someone's carlife, and so historically haven't been taken care of like a Ferrari. That means a lot of them have rust, and bad maintenance, and some very questionable modifications. But bc there were a few more made than 308s, there are a lot of X1/9s to choose from. The one in that article is owned by the owner of Fiat Plus in Santa Cruz (http://www.fiatplus.com/) and a website similar to this one for X1/9s is Xweb (http://www.xwebforums.org).

Overall, the driving experience is somewhat the same. The GT4 has divine shifting but overly heaving steering. The cable clutch actuation is subpar, but the power and smoothness of the 3litre is sublime. The Gt4 sound is worth all the problems of ownership. The X1/9's steering and handling are worth the problems of X ownership and maintenance. No one knows what either one is, and that makes them both fun.

Parking our His and Hers flying Bertone wedges next to each other brings a smile to my face.

Here's a snap of the GT4, and one of Zoe's X1/9 the day we brought it home.

Jonathan in Denver
The Fiat RN
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some photos from 1988 or so of my X1/9s - the paint job was sort of forced on me after a friend backed into the maroon one (the 'keeper') with his F150.... guards red over a white stripe base/clear
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in the mid nineties the X1/9s were gone, but held on to a couple of the air scoops so put one to use on my '89 Taurus SHO feeding the airbox. Added at least 1 hp at 100mph
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If you want to know why the 308 was such a hot car back in the day (and still), take a look at it in that picture next to all of its contemporaries in 1978.

 

Perhaps the GT4 is a better comparison. In addition to stuff like door handles and wedge shape they have the same wheels (almost)! Did the X have hubcaps like the GT4?
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My website: http://ferrari308gtsi.multiply.com/

Cheers - DM
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It's true, we were living in the automotive dark ages in 1978.

 

I don't know what you people are driving over there but there is just no way an X1/9 can come close to a 308 twisty road or not, not in the same league.
X1/9 are very nice and fun little cars and in fact I remember myself wanting one when I was around 12 but that's it, no way a 1,5lt 4 banger can even come close to the Maranello 3lt V8.

 

define twisty road - I'm picturing a public road with no straights to speak of, not especially a hill climb, lots of blind turns, hairpins, max speed rarely if ever above 60mph etc. True it's a specialized situation, but I used to have a 10 miles cummute just like this where my CRX Si would shine.

On this type of road, putting a well driven 2000lb X1/9 against a 3000lb 308 (which have fairly similar width tires) and it would take a pretty talented, composed Ferrari driver to fully exploit the extra power. Brakes would be shot on the Ferrari much sooner as well.

 

I'm sorry I don't follow you there. In a very, VERY twisty road the X1/9 would hand on the bumper of a 430 also...

The brakes wouldn't be shot uphill and downhill the X1/9 brakes would fair no better.

Let's put things in perspective here, who in his right mind would even think the X1/9 performance can even come close? Sorry not me.

 

A well modified X1/9 certainly will......sorry.

I can't help it if you guys don't know how to make a car fast.

 

I see the X1/9 forum guys have joined with their 747-engined machines, I'm outta here

 

Perhaps the real question is which car would FEEL faster or feel more fun? Because unless you are actually in a race how fast you are actually going matters only to the motorcycle cop with a radar gun. Could be that the x1/9 would feel faster, more composed, etc. And that is what makes for a fun driving experience.

I've known a couple of knowledgeable people who said that the X1/9 was the best stock handling car they'd ever driven, period. One was a mostly Porsche guy and the other had a shop specializing in tuning Lotus, so they had some experience in this department.

Even then, though, I'm not ready to trade yet.

 

Now this X19/308 comparison explains it: My brother-in-law seemed to be so interested in my 328, I could see him drooling looking at my Ferrrai. Well, he told he used to own a X19 when he was single and when he got bored he used to remove that Fiat engine out just to clean it up...I didn't get the connection that my Ferrari is just a bigger X19. Darned!

 

The 3x8 motor -really- feels like two Fiat 4 cylinders jammed together. The X is probably the best starter Ferrari

 

I've also owned one of each and while they're not comparable per se, what I would say is that the X1/9 is like a 'trainer' version of the 308 and if you can learn to drive smoothly and quickly in the Fiat, you'll be well placed to do well when you get in the "Big Fiat" !

 

What he said. I also had an 81 X1/9, now a Mondial. I agree that the GT4 is probably the best comparo to an X, probably next on my shopping list...

H

 

The wheels on Zoe's car do NOT have center hubcaps like a Dino - but there are ones that look almost exactly the same and do have a small center hubcap.

Those are more commonly found on early 124 Spiders, and are called CD3 in size 13x5 (at 4x98 bolt pattern).

Jonathan

 

I have to agree with Rifledriver, after driving many 308's and now my 328, which I LOVE, but a well prepared X1/9 is a blast. The x's 1.5 with a bunch of Abarth improvements, makes for plenty of HP, and with the x's weight, great handling, and it is a blast to drive.

I remember the first time I drove a 246, and everyone told me that they were "underpowered",, and that a 6cyl was not a Ferrari, but I had a smile on my face the entire time. The X always made me smile too..... not the same, but still fun........

Now, one is a Ferrari, but the "baby ferrari" from Fiat is well deserved.

still Italian "mechanical music"......

Enjoy,
RG

 

How about a well prepared X1/9 taking a well prepared 308?

You can modify any car to make it as fast as you wish. We should be talking of either stock or similarly modified examples and not be comparing x1/9 modified with Abarth parts and rebuilt engines to stock 308 (especially US models of the latter).