Final technical data/ dyno results; 3.2 w/Carbs | FerrariChat
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Final technical data/ dyno results; 3.2 w/Carbs

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by snj5, Sep 30, 2005.

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  1. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    Russ Turner
    #1 snj5, Sep 30, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    With all of the induction modification talk lately, here is the technical info on my Weber 40 DCNF carburetted 3.2 US spec engine in a Mondial 3.2. This is just a data point on a real live in-use engine for comparison. Whole tamale could be done for <$5.5K. Nothing was done to bottom end or heads of the engine - everything bolt-on.

    US spec compression 9.2:1
    intake cam: total lift of .368 and duration of 235 @ .050; installed @105
    exhaust: stock (222 @.050, .305)
    Single distributor ignition MSD, 34 degrees BTDC @3500

    40DCNF-12: 34 mm venturis, 145 mains, F24 ET, 210A/C, 52 idle, 40 accel pump, -12 accel cams, floats @48; Airbox: late 308 with silencing removed, K&N filter

    stock headers, emptying into 22" Dynomax free flow (3" in, 2.5" x 2 out) to dual Ansa 14" twin resonated tips

    Max rear wheel power on Dyno: 240.2 SAE rear wheel hp (rwhp), 203.4 ft-lbs rear wheel torque (compare stock US spec 3.2 injected usually near 216 rwhp, 180 ft-lb of rwtorque). Assuming approximate 18% drivetrain losses, estimated flywheel power is 293 SAE hp and 248 ft-lbs of torque (compare to 3.2 US spec factory rating of 260 hp and 213 ft-lbs of torque)

    Lesson learned: If I could do something different, I would have kept the stock cams and ported the head intakes for similar $.

    Thanks to everyone at Norwood's, Carobu, Grand Touring, Web-Cam and many on-line advisors, especially Philip Airey and Mark Eberhard.

    Best to all
    Russ
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  2. hanknum

    hanknum Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Henry
    #2 hanknum, Sep 30, 2005
    Russ,

    I've got dibs on this engine when you are ready to sell :)

    But really, thanks for all your research, input, information, and every post that you've had. I wish the chat had more people like you.

    I'm kind of serious on the "dibs" though.

    Henry
     
  3. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    #3 mk e, Sep 30, 2005
    Great result Russ.

    .....and the beautiful thing is that you can always port the heads next year or as part of the next major....:)
     
  4. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
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    #4 pma1010, Sep 30, 2005
    Good project Russ. Now drive it. Next post has got to include a description of the ear to ear grin from blasting down those San Antonio highways and bi-ways.

    You've also got another 40 - 50 bhp available (if and) when you choose to invest the $$.
    Philip
     
  5. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
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    #5 CliffBeer, Sep 30, 2005
    Russ, I'm surprised you feel that you would have got a bigger bang for the buck by changing other than the stock CIS intake cams. As you probably know, CIS cams typically don't work too well with carbs. I haven't done a CIS to carbs conversion on a ferrari but I know that the same conversion on a 911sc (same CIS system) absolutely requires replacement of the cams (single cam per bank) to get any kind of material HP/torque gain.

    Was there no suggestiong from webcams or Norwood to change the exhaust cam in addition to the intake? No need?

    That'll be a fun 3.2 Mondial you have - my '88 3.2 cab is quite nice with the CIS and a Stebro, just wish for a weeeeee bit more power!
     
  6. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    #6 Birdman, Sep 30, 2005
    If there were ever two things that don't go together it would be "Russ" and "final". We all know you aren't done yet!!

    ;)

    Birdman
     
  7. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    #7 snj5, Sep 30, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Cliff
    GREAT point. I picked up 20+ rwhp even with the stock cams. The airflow restriction is the key - that engine really wants to breathe. The 911 SC PMO conversion was my inspiration for this conversion as you probably know. I always admire the ingenuity of the Porsche guys. I could have gotten more hp with a wilder grind and an exhaust, but I had requirements for a street driven car, meaning I would not take a large torque hit, and the Mondial is heavy to begin with. Talking with them, they suggested keeping the stock exhaust would minimize the torque hit, and I even gained a whopper amount compared to what I was expecting. In fact, my car with the new cams puts out MORE rear wheel torque than several 348s and Mondial t dynos I have seen - yee-haa! And brother, combined with the Weber accel pump response, that is FUN.
    If you look at the dyno, it is apparant that the engine would do MUCH more if it could still breathe better - and that is porting the heads as the carbs are good for a lot more HP.

    And did I mention the SOUND? It is the best sounding Ferrari V-8 I have ever heard, but I am partial to the old school baritone sound over the new high pitched alto tubi sound.

    Birdman - you guys know me too well. :)

    Philip - It does drive and sound like a dream - the response and torque are amazing. Starts easy every time, 0-60 in the low 6's, very reliable, tighter Koni lowered suspension with improved response, inexpensive and easy to DIY. It's dang amazing for what it is.

    Could not have done it without you guys - thanks!
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  8. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    #8 judge4re, Sep 30, 2005
    Cough cough Mondial t time cough cough...
     
  9. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
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    #9 Artvonne, Sep 30, 2005
    240 hp at the wheels. Russ, the old man is up there smiling down on you, good job. I do agree though, I cant help thinking we have not seen the end of this.
     
  10. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    #10 snj5, Oct 4, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Paul and Bird

    Ok ok, I went changed the fuel pump from the clunky noisy Facet to the smoother rotary Carter 4070 - no regulator required. The clicking/thunking of the Facet could be heard above the beautiful engine sounds often and was so annoying.

    No more changes at least until lunch... :)
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  11. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    #11 Birdman, Oct 4, 2005
    Russ,
    That thing is beautiful! It's the "trick-est" Mondial on Fchat! I totally know what you mean about the sound. The difference in sound between my carb 308 and injected Mondial is huge. Stomping it in a carb Ferrari makes a sound and feel like nothing else! (BTW the 140 jets helped a lot, thanks!)

    Birdman
     
  12. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #12 BigTex, Oct 4, 2005
    There's this two lane, leaving San Marcos...headed west towards Wimberley......:rolleyes:

    I recommend lunch at the RR12 Cafe first, there's always a SWTSU hottie or two, in there slinging the grub......

    Or maybe just a greasy cheeseburger at Grin's, if you are in a hurry!
     
  13. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    #13 snj5, Oct 4, 2005
    And now - a video! Short clip of the car when James Patterson from Norwood Performance delivered the car with the new hotter cams.
    Video by MarkPDX!
    thanks!

    http://media.putfile.com/mondial
     
  14. itraco

    itraco Rookie

    Apr 8, 2006
    20
    #14 itraco, Oct 8, 2006
    Dear Russ,

    Im am very interested in the weber conversion.
    Would it be possible to put up the video or a better one online again.
    It would be great to hear the sound of 4 valves with webers.

    B.rgds.

    Patrick
     
  15. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #15 enjoythemusic, Oct 8, 2006
    CONGRATS!!!! That is great dude!
     
  16. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    Russ Turner
    #16 snj5, Oct 8, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Patrick

    Thanks. I did actually go back to a Facet Gold fuel pump with better rubber mounting and it is now quiet with less current draw.

    I hear tell that sponsor Nick at Forza is casting a set of manifolds - that's really the only specialty piece needed - everything else is really available and the whole deal is bolt on. And reliable - drove up to Dallas and back last month for a car show - ran and sounded great and I never turned on the radio! Engine has been bulletproof reliable for about 3 years + now - always starts!

    I'll try to post a better recording soon. FYI - I am looking at tweaking the exhaust with a pair of s/s Larini headers. I've also gone to a dual plenum air intake similar to the new Ferraris to hopefully take advantage of intake pulses.
    Once the new exhaust is on was going to dyno the whole thing again.

    For a street car, whatever anyone tells you, the torque is the best part of the improvement I've seen.

    Steven - thanks!

    best to all

    russ
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