Finding 30 BTDC on a V12 without access to the flywheel? | FerrariChat

Finding 30 BTDC on a V12 without access to the flywheel?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by JohnMH, Feb 3, 2024.

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  1. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,844
    Bologna
    Apologies for the non-F car content.

    I am chasing a rough idle in my 92 Diablo 2wd. Fuel and spark issues have been tracked down and corrected, but the issue persists.

    We want to check timing next.

    A Diablo has three references which need to correspond to get the timing right. At 30 degrees BTDC on cylinder 1, the bottom phase sensor and the tab on the 7-12 exhaust cam need to be lined up. At that moment, an arrow on the ignition rotor needs to line up with a mark on the distributor rotor base.

    All this assumes the cams are lined up correctly, but fortunately that can be checked with the engine in place.

    Both the phase sensor tab and the ignition rotor are infinitely adjustable, so I need to check both are set correctly.

    This is easy with a degree wheel and the engine out of the car, but not so easy with the engine in the car. There are (as far as I can see) no marks on the flywheel when peering through a sensor hole (unlike a Countach, a Diablo has no timing inspection hole).

    Obviously it is easy to find TDC on every cylinder, but given the firing order, is it possible to calculate which cylinder is at TDC 30 degrees before cylinder 1 reaches TDC?

    By my guess a cylinder fires every 720 degrees of crank rotation. If the firing of the cylinders are equally spaced, then one cylinder fires every 60 degrees of crank rotation. Which means one of the cylinders should be at TDC on the exhaust stroke 30 degrees before cylinder 1 reaches TDC. Is my logic sound? In another way of thinking about it, how can I calculate which piston is 360 degrees away from TDC on the ignition stroke when cylinder 1 is 30 degrees BTDC?

    If I am correct, this would be a "cheat" not printed in the service manual, very Lamborghini.
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,932
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    If you know the number of teeth on the flywheel (and can see them), you can use those as rough angular timing marks (say something like 150 teeth gives each tooth being 2.4 deg, and you can probably cut that visually into 4 parts so you'd be within 0.5 ~ 1 deg). Don't think that there's anything wrong with the scheme that you propose (except knowing which other cylinder to use ;)) -- maybe do both as a sanity check for each other.
     
  3. wmuno

    wmuno Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 24, 2007
    522
    Wilmette, Illinois
    Full Name:
    Bill Muno
    #3 wmuno, Feb 4, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2024
    If you have access to the vibration damper or front pulley, you can calculate the position of any angle. Measure the diameter of the damper or pulley, then calculate the circumference. Multiply that number by 15/360. Transfer that exact distance to a piece of tape. With cylinder 1 on TDC, add a pointer close to the damper or pulley. Place one end of the tape at the pointer, then turn the engine in the reverse direction until the other end of the tape reaches the pointer. Cylinder 1 will now be 30 degrees BTDC.
     
  4. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,844
    Bologna
    Alas, no vibration damper at the end of the crank on a Diablo.

    I did get a call today from a gentleman in the UK who knows a lot about early Diablos. There IS a flywheel inspection window, but remarkably well hidden. I did not find it after quite some time looking.

    There is a dot drilled into the flywheel 30 degrees BTDC apparently, so my mental gymnastics will remain theoretical for now.
     
  5. wmuno

    wmuno Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 24, 2007
    522
    Wilmette, Illinois
    Full Name:
    Bill Muno
    On some Ferraris the inspection window is on the undreside of the car. Did you check there?
     
  6. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,844
    Bologna
    A Diablo is supposed to have an inspection window drilled on the bottom of the sump where it meets the bellhousing.

    But mine was built without one. Remarkable. Must have been built a Friday afternoon.
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,932
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Companies do make design changes during a production run to fix issues that come up and get identified.
     
  8. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,844
    Bologna
    The Diablo had more design changes than most! The VT version (1994) necessitated an entirely new and larger flywheel and clutch. Oh, and they reversed the direction the crank spins...
     

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