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Finish this sentence:

Discussion in '308/328' started by Perfusion, May 25, 2010.

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  1. Perfusion

    Perfusion F1 Rookie

    Oct 16, 2004
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    Aaron
    When I'm driving my '79 GT4 and the tachometer falls to "0", matched with what feels like a loss of spark to a bank of cylinders, I should start by checking _________________ .

    (and no, "...my account balance," is not the correct answer!)

    :D
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 Steve Magnusson, May 25, 2010
    Last edited: May 25, 2010
    ... the connections at the coil/ballast resistor of the one that has the MN (brown/black) tach wire attached (the '78-'79 B/S schematic shows this as the 1-4 bank, but, functionally, it would work the same if attached to the 5-8 coil/ballast resistor). If those seem OK, check the points (if still equipped) inside the corresponding distributor (or whatever you have firing the corresponding coil).

    The tach measures the firing rate of one of the coil's primary winding -- so your symptom of "no tach + dead bank" go together well.
     
  3. PittsS2APilot

    PittsS2APilot Formula Junior

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    the fuel gauge!
     
  4. UpNorth

    UpNorth Formula 3
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    if the key is still in position?
    if the liquor store with my favorite beer is still open?
    if my AAA card is not expired?
    All of the above!
    Cheers! :D
     
  5. Tim Wells

    Tim Wells Formula Junior

    Dec 31, 2009
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    Tim Wells
    Coil, then wires and distributor cap & rotor.
     
  6. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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  7. Lew L

    Lew L Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2006
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    my underwear?
     
  8. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
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    Yes it is.
     
  9. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    Your Fiero engine's only got one bank.
     
  10. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    3,041
    I've seen this on two distrib setups. Do you have the R2 points on your car? Simple problem if it's just the dwell. Not simple because you need a synchrograph to check the advance curves. Does it happen about the same RPM?

    Anyway, throw a dwell meter on the two distribs, and check a couple of RPM points, and check the timing. If you rely on shops to help with these tasks, there may be some checkbook fiddling in your future, but not horrible if everything else is up to date.
     
  11. Perfusion

    Perfusion F1 Rookie

    Oct 16, 2004
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    Yes, it's a dual dizzy setup. I have (2) PermaTune CDIs and MSD coils. I checked the wiring diagram last night for the PermaTunes, and it looks like a white wire connects to the brown (of the car) for the tachometer. I checked that connection, and it appears fine - not loose or corroded.

    I'll need an in-service on checking dwell (as well as a trip to the store to buy a dwell meter), but hey, this is why I pay Comcast for internet service! :)
     
  12. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    3,041
    Lemmee think a second.

    You have CDI - - so no points, and no R2's, but they fire from the mechanical position of the rotor (4-lobe cams) which are controlled mechanically via centifugal advance mechanism.

    BUT,

    You have no way for any cross talk between banks, so I would switch my thoughts to a CDI problem, or whatever is upstream electrically from the Tach. It sounds more and more to me like a unit is acting up. A dwell meter could see this as either dwell that's too great or small to trigger the tach. How hard would it be to temporarily connect the tach to the system on the other bank?
     
  13. Perfusion

    Perfusion F1 Rookie

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    Probably not too difficult. I found the corresponding white wire coming out of the other CDI unit. It would just be a matter of running some new wire to the brown wire near the coils.
     
  14. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    You are ALL wrong !

    Because you forgot to phrase your answers in the form of a question....
     
  15. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
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    Theme from Jeopardy is playing somewhere :)
     
  16. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

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    #16 2dinos, May 27, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    If you are certain that these outputs / signals do the same job, than that's what I would try first. But be certain they are. If you have any doubts, you can call the tech line for the CDI and get concurrence.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

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    .....how my mistress can get a ride home so that my wife doesn't find out when she shows up to pick me up.
     
  18. Perfusion

    Perfusion F1 Rookie

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    Everybody's a comedian!
     
  19. jimpo1

    jimpo1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I don't have a GT4 but when that happened to me I had a drained battery caused by a loose bolt on the alternator. All of the electrics were running off of the battery!
     
  20. Perfusion

    Perfusion F1 Rookie

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    Let me make sure I'm following. The tach gets it's signal from one of the coils. In my case, it's the one that fires the 5-8 bank. My current symptoms involving the tach suggest it's either the coil or the cdi unit. By switching the wire from the cdi (to the tach to) the other cdi box (the 1-4 bank), I will isolate out the potentially bad cdi unit. The tach signal will still be coming from the same coil, only through a different cdi unit. Assuming it's a faulty cdi box under these new circumstances, I should still get the loss of spark to the 5-8 bank but without the loss of tach signal. Correct?
     
  21. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #21 Steve Magnusson, May 27, 2010
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
    Or whatever is inside the distributor firing the CDI unit. "CDI" does not always mean "no points" (just less current flowing in the points , if so equipped) -- have you ever looked inside the distributors? But you are on the right path -- swap the various components, and see if the problem follows a particular component or not.

    If you want to swap that CDI units, you need to swap both the input signals (coming from the distributors) and the output signal (going to the coils). Without knowing your exact wiring, can't say that I follow your comments here 100%, but you can't just swap the connections from the CDI units to the coils (as the input signals to the CDI units will not be occurring at the right times).
     
  22. Perfusion

    Perfusion F1 Rookie

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    I should have been more clear. I have 2 PermaTune CDI boxes mounted in the trunk of my GT4. As far as I know, the 2 are identical in terms of the wires that exit them. The documentation I have in my records from PermaTune states that the white wire goes to the tach. As was previously mentioned above, the factory color wire for the tach is brown. I can follow the wire loom out of the trunk and into the engine bay where I see the white wire pulled out and joined with the brown. I assume this to be the tachometer connection.

    The CDI whose white wire joins with the car's brown wire is the unit that connects to the coil firing the 5-8 bank. I am assuming that this is the bank which is losing spark at the same time I lose the tach. The other CDI has the same white wire exiting the box, but it is not connected to anything - it remains in the trunk.

    My plan isn't to switch anything other than which white wire connects to the brown. Let's say it's currently connected to CDI "1", and I want to disconnect it from CDI "1" and connect it to CDI "2". Is this not advisable? My thought is that, in doing so, a different CDI unit will be sending the signal to the tachometer via the white/brown connection. *IF* it is in fact a faulty CDI unit causing my symptoms, I fully expect to have the intermittent loss of spark after changing the tach wire. In the new setup, however, I should have a good tach reading because CDI "2" will be sending the signal while CDI "1" is having issues. Correct?
     
  23. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #23 Steve Magnusson, May 27, 2010
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
    Yes, if the white wire is a completely dedicated wire connected only to the brown/black tach wire that would be OK to swap, but you previously said this:

    which I took to mean that the brown/black wire is still connected to the coil too.

    However, even if you can make that swap, and then tach then works OK, you still won't know if the problem is with the (seemingly bad) CDI unit itself or the input signal from the corresponding distributor to the (seemingly bad) CDI unit is missing/bad -- Good Hunting!
     
  24. Perfusion

    Perfusion F1 Rookie

    Oct 16, 2004
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    Ah, yes I did. I got that from this: (perhaps just making an uneducated assumption based on your clearly-more-educated assumption!)

    Good point. Hmm... Well, I'll start there, and see where it gets me and then report back.
     

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