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355 Fiorano Handling Package Vs Challenge Suspension ECU.

Discussion in '348/355' started by ShineKen, Aug 17, 2021.

  1. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Veteran
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    Image Unavailable, Please Login @601 According to the WSM, I calculated standard spring rates are designed to be approximately 185 lbs/in for fronts and approximately 260 lbs/in for the rear.

    With slightly more than 15% increase, you arrive at 215 lbs/inch in the front and 300 lbs/inch in the rear.


    Standard front springs are 12.5 inches. Standard rear springs are close to 10 inches.
     
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  3. MAD828

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  4. ShineKen

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  5. ShineKen

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    More info on 150415 progressive rear springs.

    Length: 10.32 inches

    Rate: 297 lbs/in. If my calculation is correct. I hate deciphering euro numbers :).


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  7. MAD828

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    The superformance springs are correct in size then. The rears where a touch over 10 inches in length and the fronts 10 inches.
     
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  8. ShineKen

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    The rears appear to be accurate. We just don’t know enough about the Fiorano fronts to make a comparison yet. Lots of info/specs on the rear since it is a 512 TR spring as well. Fiorano front is a bit of a mystery as I can’t find any info on them outside of pics. However, I might have a lead on an original brand new pair.
     
  9. MAD828

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    I’m surprised you haven’t bought yourself a donor 512TR to remove the rear springs from.
     
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  10. ShineKen

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    Lol. Funny you mention this because I was just talking to Ferrparts today about verifying a 512 TR spring they have for sale.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ferrari-512-TR-512-M-355-Rear-Leaf-Road-Spring-151882-/110928695196?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


    They have the part number of a 512 TR linear spring listed , but picture obviously shows progressive springs. If we’re lucky, they might even have 4 of them :eek:. Waiting on pics from them before I jinx it.
     
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  12. ShineKen

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    Unobtanium has been obtained. These have been sitting on the shelves since 2000?

    Fiorano front springs.

    Length: 285mm or 11.22 inches. So approximately 1.25 inches lower than standard front springs (12.5 inches). And probably 1 inch taller than Superformance’s version of “Fiorano Springs.”

    Spring rates: TBD :).
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  13. ShineKen

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  14. MAD828

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    Nice I had my friend Anthony measure his Fiorano superformance springs they are 280mm front and 270mm rear. So the front is 11 inches and very close to the OEM Fiorano springs.
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  15. ShineKen

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    I'm glad we got that cleared, so there's no speculation. I tripple checked and the Fiorano front springs are 285mm right on the dot. 11.22 inches.

    I feel 11 inch (front) is a good length between the super low H&R Front springs (10 inches?) and super high standard springs (12.5 inches.) You should be able to set the front ride height to everything but dumped. Well thought out Ferrari :).


    Did we ever put those Superformance springs on a tester?


    I'm having the Fiorano springs currently dropped off at Swift Springs local here. They have a very accurate tester.
     
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  16. Skippr1999

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    Great work.
     
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  17. ShineKen

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    I’m still on the hunt for a challenge front roll bar. Any leads would be appreciated. New or used.
     
  18. taz355

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    Keep up the great detective work
     
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  19. 601

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    We can start by calculating the approximate spring rate, if you still have one on hand and precisely measure the spring and coil diameters.
     
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  20. 601

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    Free length alone is not an indicator of installed height, which depends on the spring rate. Your Fiorano spring is shorter than the original to accommodate a higher spring rate, not to sit lower. Installed length with your 285mm free length would be the same as original at about 243 lb/in. If it's stiffer than that, it will actually sit higher.

    Check post #46 where I stated the Fiorano spring would have to be just over 11" at the Superformance claimed rate of 250 lb/in. I actually thought that would be too short for the spring to still engage the upper mount under full droop. It's probably right at the limit, so anything higher than 250 lb/in with corresponding shorter free length likely requires helper springs or progressive winding.
     
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  21. ShineKen

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    According to my best judgment with a standard ruler, spring diameter is 103mm. Coil diameter. is 12mm.

    In the same token, my ruler measures the standard coil diameter at 11mm, while the WSM spec states it is 11.5 mm. Safe to say my ruler shows Fiorano coil diameter to be 1mm more than the standard spring. It’s noticeable when you put them side by side.


    So try 12 or 12.5mm for coil diameter.
     
  22. ShineKen

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  23. ShineKen

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    @601

    I came up with 249-250 lbs/inch. Watchu got?

    I used “9” active coils for each one.
     
  24. ShineKen

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    I’m confused by what to plug in for “active coils.”

    I put the springs side by side in the exact same coil position and it appears the standard spring has 1 more coil.

    If I use 8 coils for Fiorano spring and 9 coils for standard, I’ve gotten as high as 280 lbs/inch.


    It also appears the spring rate calculation is very sensitive to even .5mm wire/spring diameter differences. I’ve plugged in different combos and have gotten anywhere from 238-281 lbs/inch.

    Only way to know with certainty is to measure the spring on a tester. Heck, maybe I should measure the standard spring at the same time.
     
  25. 601

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    I count 7 active coils and 9 total coils for the Fiorano spring. 7.5 active and 9.5 total coils for the standard spring.

    My estimate is between 220 and 270 lb/in given your 0.5 mm tolerance, which as you found results in a wide range. A caliper measurement would get us closer.

    The standard spring rate is well known, both from WSM documentation and Johan's actual testing, which are fairly consistent. But if you get yours tested along with the Fiorano, that would give us a solid reference point for comparing the two.
     
  26. ShineKen

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  27. ShineKen

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    I really should measure both at the same time. There is one X factor. The Fiorano spring is new, the standard spring is 30k mi old.
     

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