Fire Extinguisher Mount - Anyone try this location?

I'm tired of having an extinguisher jammed behind my seat, but I have been very reluctant to do the common thing of mounting one on a seat rail extension. Getting in and out of these cars is hard enough as it is, and the combination of sitting close to the wheel (short legs), and not being able to open the driver's door fully in my garage makes that mounting location very annoying.

After much fussy test-fitting, I'm leaning towards mouthing a 1.5 HalGuard extinguisher on to the chassis rail behind the driver's side shoulder, outboard of the seat belt mount, as shown. I have not been able to detect any interference with normal egress/ingress or roof panel mounting/storage, but I'm curious if anyone here has tried this installation in a GTS and noted any issues. I don't tap drill and tap threaded holes in my frame lightly, and without lengthy deliberation. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

(Note: I have a nice, chrome HalGuard on order. Using this little dry chem as a model, because the size is very close. But this IS the mount I'll be using.)

 

Looks pretty tidy in that location. As far as seat rail extensions, I believe you are referring to mounting it flat on the floor right in front of the seat. I did that, using the mount kit made by FChatter Robert Garvin, but have it on the passenger side where it poses very few issues. It fits a 2.5 lb halon extinguisher, requires no drilling, and is easily removed if you go to any judged events.

 

I keep this in my door pocket in my 328.
https://elementfire.com/

 

"Judged events?" Ha! Not in this car. I've made so many little upgrades and customizations, she is (very) gradually morphing into a restomod. I'd get shredded by a concours judge--but she runs very well, and reliably.

That said, I do care about my passenger's egress/ingress as well, and with an open top car especially, I don't want my wife burning her legs on hot metal. (I'd get a first-gen Viper if I wanted that to happen.) Regardless of whether you mount it to the moving part of the seat rail, or the fixed position side, you're going to make contact with it at some point. If the car was bigger and easier to get in and out of (say, a 360 Modena or newer) I think I could live with a bottle there, but my 308 seems to be shrinking as I get older.

BL: I think I'll try the mounting I described. The only big worry I have is accidentally drilling into the vacuum and heater lines, but since I am only planning to drill and tap the outer layer of metal, I don't need to go deep.

Thanks for the reply.

 

I remain unconvinced about those for anything other than a modern daily driver. I think they're a good compromise of utility vs. space for a vehicle that is *unlikely* to ever catch on fire. Unfortunately, mid-engine cars don't generally fall in that category. Old ones especially. As we are all free and entitled as adults to make risk decisions about our cars, I won't tell you not to rely on them, but personally, I'd rather have an actual fire extinguisher--preferably a Halon-like product. (If it gets bad enough that PKP is required, I will run away and let the track marshals/firefighters deal with it.)

Thanks for the reply though.

 

If the car catches fire, get out and move to a safe location. I've seen two life changing events (permanent physical damage) caused by trying to put out a car fire. Leave the jr firefighter badge at home; let it burn while you call people who actually know how to deal with vehicle fires!

 

SCCA sanctioned shows (many are) require a fire extinguisher and FCA shows are not supposed to deduct for them.

 

Interferes with getting top in and out no?

 

If mine catches fire I'm off to get gasoline and marshmallows. I never want an insurance company to even entertain a fire repair.

 

I've actually had a fair amount of experience (and professional training) with shipboard and aircraft fires, and have had to deal with in-flight fires in a helicopter, in a hostile fire zone, so I think I already have my "Jr. firefighter badge." Furthermore, as an aircraft mishap investigator, I've had to sort through burned wreckage with human remains still attached, so you don't have to worry about any ill-advised heroics on my part. At the same time, being able to quickly and calmly address a small fire can prevent injury to self, others, and property. As I said in previous response, if it got to the point where I would need dry agent like PKP, or ATFF, I'm out. Obviously.

That's goes to my previous point about the Element extinguishers. They might work, but they are very slow. With a Halon-like product (IE: Halguard) or even a dry-agent or CO2 extinguisher, you are going to know in about 2-3 seconds whether you are going to be able to get this thing extinguished or not. You are much more likely to get injured (burned, or smoke-inhalation) if you are standing around for 50 seconds waving an Element stick at an engine fire hoping it will do it's thing.

By the way, my second line of defense, which I also recommend, is carrying a fire blanket in the trunk. That is less for the car, and more for roadside flammables, or what we used to call "screaming alphas" -- people that have caught on fire.

Sorry to go high-and-mighty. No offense intended, but I'm not a complete moron.

 

Not the way I do it. I go straight up, not sideways. I did experiment though, with my son holding the bottle in place while I fumbled the roof panel in and out. I kept hitting him with my elbow, but the bottle itself didn't get in my way at all. Besides, one could always dismount it for a minute while you stowed the roof. .

 

I similarly have an extinguisher mounted across the front of the passenger side seat rails. Fabricated the mount myself with some angle iron with predrilled holes, like that used to hang garage door openers. Painted it black and mounted with the front seat rail bolts. It has posed no problem for my passengers thus far. More importantly, did not require any drilling of the vehicle.

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login Here is what I use, 80% smaller and 5 times the discharge time. Fits in my door pocket out of sight.

 

They're probably best for suppressing reflash AFTER you've smothered all the visible flames in a hot engine bay with a regular extinguisher, but the agent discharge rate is so low, you put yourself in a lot of danger standing there sucking fumes while the fire is still potentially building in intensity. The other advantage that a gas-discharge extinguisher has that an Element doesn't, is the expansion of gas provides rapid cooling, working on two sides of the fire-triangle.

 

There is a point where I agree but a vehicle fire isn't always an instantaneous conflagration bordering on explosion. An incident I had was caused by a hydraulic fluid leak that caught a plastic belt guard on fire. Without an extinguisher I would have lost that vehicle. So I keep an extinguisher in all of them, some in the trunk and my philosophy is that if I cannot calmly step out of the car, open the trunk and get the extinguisher to put out the budding fire (that might only be a flame no bigger than your thumb at that point) then it's time to follow Mike's advice and get away from the thing.

As far as a 308 goes, well you need a wheel chock for parking at the concours right?

 

I'm very proud that after a decade of ownership, my parking brake actually does something besides activating a warning light on the dashboard. Not that I trust it or anything, so yeah--another good reason to have a fire-extinguisher! Just don't forget it when you drive away...

 

The Element units have a whole bunch of advantages, and are worth researching. Definitely don't dismiss it without knowing all the pros and cons. I keep one in my car in addition to a Halotron extinguisher, and there are scenarios where I might prefer one over the other. For one thing, a small extinguisher like most of us carry in a car will give a short intense blast before it runs out -- you will get maybe 4-6 seconds before they peter out (a larger 5# unit will give you 6-10 seconds if you can make the room for one). If you're not exactly on the money with your aim or the fire is more stubborn or spread out, you may as well throw the empty extinguisher at the fire and run the other way because it won't help anymore. The Element will go for almost a minute and that could potentially save the day in many scenarios.

I like Halotron units because they won't make a mess or cause damage like a typical chemical extinguisher, which could be worse than the actual fire in some scenarios. But Halotron is only BC rated and will not be effective on type A flammable materials like wood, paper, textiles, carpet, headliner, seating, clothing, etc... So keep that in mind. The Element is ABCK rated so it covers a wider range of possible fire fuels (and it won't make a mess either).

I would not be keen to mount an extinguisher right next to the side of the seat knowing what it might do in the case of a wreck, but let's face it, these cars are probably worthless in a wreck either way. So it may not matter for a 308/328. I strapped my Halotron unit (via quick-release bracket) to the spare tire in my 328 frunk; in some testing, I could get out of the driver's seat and access that location faster than I could reach over to unclip a unit from the floor next to the passenger seat and then egress the vehicle with it in my hands. This is another oddball characteristic of a tall person in a 308/328. Doesn't necessarily make sense for other people/vehicles. But good to take everything into account. I pretty much need two hands to wrangle my tall body out of the car and that leaves no hands to hold onto an extinguisher while exiting.

Fire extinguishers are a lot like cameras, the best one is the one you have with you and can operate efficiently. Oh, and be sure passengers know where to get it if not obvious, whether a traditional unit on a bracket somewhere in the car, or an Element stick in a glove box or door pocket.

 

I have actually looked into the various options, including the Element, which is why I say it's only really worthwhile as a back-up, for guarding against a reflash, or maybe suppressing a smouldering fire that hasn't actually gotten big yet. Class A fires in cars are almost always secondary, after a B or C. If the fire has already gotten far enough that it is becoming multi-class, you've lost the fight, so the relative inefficiency of a Halotron at putting out those is not much of a downside.

Having inhaled an awful lot of smoke from burning vehicles (at least 308s don't have a lot of composite materials like aircraft do that release really nasty chemicals) I don't have much interest in standing at close range to a B/C fire for more than a couple seconds anyway. I think trying to fight something like that with an Element is asking to get injured.

Speaking of injury . . . You make a good point about what having a extinguisher by your shoulder might do in a crash, but you make an even better point (and the one I was going to make) by assessing that it's probably the least of your concerns if you get into a road mishap. Basically, a 308 cockpit is not a place you want to be in a multi-vehicle crash, period, end-stop.

That's the other reason why I'm not keen on the usual floor-mount position. The advantage I see for my idea is I don't have to grab it first, the fumble my way out. I can easily retrieve it from outside the vehicle--without even having the door open, if necessary.

All true. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

I installed a "blaze cut" brand extinguishing system in the engine compartment of my 3.2 Mondial, I also installed an extinguisher in front of the passenger seat (which I would never use on my car, I just want to be able to get out, it's there for other emergencies I guess! ) the last photo is my Lotus Europa about 30 seconds after I bailed out of her around 1976 or so! I was 19 and a lot more limber then, all I want to do right now is have some time to get out of the car and survive!
Alden
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There is generally a big divide between what people think of as a fire and what a hand held extinguisher is designed to handle. People always over-estimate the size of fire they can tackle and think they can approach say a car with flames licking out of the engine compartment and through the wheel wells. Reality is that at that stage your car is a goner and the best thing to do is stand clear and call both the fire department and insurance company.

Truth is that most fires start off small and getting to them quickly is the key to saving the car. This means an extinguisher MUST be in the drivers compartment. Having it in the trunk is a total waste of time in an emergency. Again with a fire starting small the key is to have some kind of tool available to put the fire out and that tool needs to be close at hand. Bottle extinguishers discharge for just under 10 seconds and start to loose force after about 6 seconds. Because most people are not regularly using them you loose a few seconds just getting your bearings and feeling out the tool. This normally leaves you with one good shot before the bottle is done.

I personally carry an Element because it is small and compact meaning I can fit it in my door pocket without crowding the small passenger compartment. It needs no maintenance so I don't have to worry about it being ready. It makes no mess because often times a powder extinguisher does a lot of damage. Lastly its long discharge time allows for time to get comfortable with the situation at hand. I've personally used one and have been very pleased with the results. Recently my friend with a Porsche 356 had an engine fire and saved her car with the Element I gifted her. She told me that the ease of access and time afforded her by the Element was crucial in saving her very cherished collector car.

When it comes to extinguishers my choice is Element, for the reasons stated, but carrying anything being better than nothing. We should all have an extinguisher especially in older cars.

 

I disagree. As I said previously if you cannot calmly exit the vehicle without jumping out in an adrenaline rush and getting run over by another car or tripping and doing a faceplant and then calmly retrieve an extinguisher from the trunk it's already too late. We are talking about ten seconds here. Now, if you have no extinguisher at all you might watch helplessly for several minutes while that little flame grows into something uncontrollable and not be able to do anything about it. I have extinguishers in all of my vehicles and for most it would be completely ridiculous to have it mounted in the passenger compartment.