first abuse of patriot act from Sept 11 attacks???

It was painfully obvious from the beginning that an act like this has far-reaching powers, most of which I had expected to be abused by the charlatans we call politicians.

--Dan

 

In other words, if it is used to catch criminals it is being abused? LOL... You'd rather see the people breaking the law go free? If you are not breaking the law, you have nothing to worry about.

Ernesto

 

When the Patriot Act was passed I asked several liberals on various US political message boards to name and provide evidence of actual situations were in times of US national crisis...as in war, etc......that civil rights were revoked and then "not re-instated" after the cause had passed.

No one was "able or willing" to name any set of such circumstances.

"The sky is falling...the sky is falling...."

 

Say hello to the new 3rd Reich!

 

Ernesto "You'd rather see the people breaking the law go free?"

Yes, I most certinly would. Considering that the alternative is the encumbiment of freedom.

While it may be true for now that 'if you aren't breaking the law, you have nothing to worry about', the power the Patriot Act gives is just too easy to abuse.

Best!
Ben

 

"Ernesto "You'd rather see the people breaking the law go free?"

Yes, I most certinly would. Considering that the alternative is the encumbiment of freedom."

Ben, thats easy to say but would you really feel that way if the killer/rapist of your wife or daughter walked free due to some minor police clerical mistake or if a second 9/11 happened because the police were restricted from listening in on some terrorist group planning it
in a Mosque?

Our constitution is the best rule of law the world has ever had but its not a suicide pact. Get real.

 

I can't believe this. You break the law. Authorities catch you via the Patriot Act. You go to jail. Oh, but the perp lost his freedom! LOL... Too easy to abuse against who? Criminals? For all I care, they can use it to its maximum interpretation to catch criminals, etc. I would gladly give up a little privacy so that criminal are taken off the street. The greater good. Sacrifice.

Ernesto

 

I'm surprised it took so long. I think the Feds hate the Constitution & Bill of Rights. You know that if these guys were around in 1776 we would have had a totalitariian dictatorship. Thankfully the Constitutions framers were extremely advanced indiviuduals, nothing like the politicians we have today

 

I always thought the US were promoters of freedom. In actual fact there is probably more control on US citizens than in places in the "foriegn lands".

 

You better believe it, Down in Argentina, you can do pretty much whatever you like. Want to do 160 mph down the highway, go out of the city & have fun Lots of other fun stuff to do too

BTW George Soros just gave the Dems $10-15M to beat Bush who he says reminds him of the Germans & Russians from his youth in Hungary

 

Jim, you can do that anyway. The Patriot Act doesnt make this more or less likely. If you have political connections of that degree, then there are a million ways to put the hurt on your partner, from IRS to FBI, etc etc. That is not a good reason. The Patriot Act is used to catch terrorists. If it is also used to catch other criminals, GOOD FOR THEM! I'm all for catching criminals and using powerful tools to catch them. The bottom line is that people are complaining about losing freedoms, when they should be complaining about all the criminals and terrorists out there getting away with murder.

Ernesto

 

“Those whom would give up a little bit of freedom for a little bit of security deserve neither"

Benjamin Franklin.

There is a reason a police officer cannot just detain me and search my vehicle for no reason at all. If they could, we would live in a police state.

Ernesto- no one obeys the law all of the time. I probally break it daily in one fassion or another. The Patrioit Act destroys the checks and ballances that give the police/gov't the limited ability to investigate and punish criminals.

Just because I'm fuking Iranian should NOT mean I'm under so much scruitney that they put me away for rolling through the stop sign at the top of my hill at 5mph.

And lastly, yes, I would perfer a rapist or three to go free, as opposed to living in a police state (where the rapists are still there, and actually sanctioned by the governing bodies...) And if it happened to a family member of mine, well, the police would be involved, but I'd be telling them where to find the various pieces of his body.

Best!
Ben.

 

Hate to break it to you, but majority of americans don't want to put themselves at risk of punishments, even if that would let them live in a safer better country. Would you be willing to support a law that say if you have a BAC of .10 or higher the car you're driving (regardless of owner, unless it's stolen) is impounded and all the cars registered to your name are impounded and auctioned off? Most people aren't for that idea, but it would make the roads safer. What about physical punishments for crimes against others, ie. caning for vandilism, drunk driving, theft, etc? Most americans won't agree to that either.

I understand the complaint with the patriot act, that it can extend to anyone, not just suspected terrorists. I'm glad there is a deadline in 2005 for it, hopefully it goes away then.

 

Has anyone here actually read the Patriot act?

 

I tell you it scares the ****e outta me. If someone today called up the police and said you had links with a terrorist org you could be locked up, lose all your rights, until you can prove otherwise! You might think this is extreame but I know someone whose house was turned upside because some racist guys in the neighborhood told that to the police. The police came round put him and his family in jail, stripped his house and found absolutely nothing. Nothing to find.

Then they left his house with all carpets and floorboards pulled up, cupboard contents all over the place, and not even an offer of any help or compensation to help pull their lives back together again.

Hail Communism I say!!!

 

I love Miami but I may be spending more time in BA or Italia after law school

Lawyers, Is due process dying ?

 

Ben: when did you become iranian?

--Dan

 

Argentina is great, no worries about sexual harrasment, you can harras all day at will No Cops bothering you, On the road they want some $ everynow & then, thats why I dont even own a car there, just hire a car & driver everywhere. You have to get something that looks plain outside cus its not the safest place. But you can do a lot of stuff that you could never get aaway with here

 

oops, meant to say "hypothetically, I'm Iranian" ;P

Besides, it sounds cooler than "1/4 Italian, 1/4 german, 1/2 Miscalaneous White Guy Mish-Mash"

Best!
Ben.

 

"Argentina is great"

I admit I have never been there but isn't it an economic and social basket case? Didn't tens of thousands "vanish" and were presumably murdered by the gov? It was once a rich, proud and respected country but wasn't that all destroyed and is now an example of how not to run a country?

 

Lou, well its far from perfect. The economy is crawliong out of the sub-basement, corruption & drugs are still rampant, kidnappings have dropped a bit I hope, Better off than Columbia, Venezuela, or Iraq, probably not as healthy as MX.

The 70s were pretty bad as the Nazis that relocated to Argentina during & after WW2 reached their peak in govt influence & , well Peron was a facist way back in the 50s but yes the 70s were real bad. The 90s were really good though until the 99 or so. then the economy went into freefall. and yes it is a great example of how not to run a country

But if you want to have fun, its a very good place indeed just be careful, stay low key, dont flash cash & a bodyguard is a good idea