First buy - 456 - should I ?

Djbono, I have to vote with Scowman here...and with you. The red wrap smells worse than it probably looks. Time to look elsewhere I'm afraid. Patience is a virtue and looking wisely until you find the right one is the call. And it will show up...

PM me if there is anything else about this you might want to discuss. I'll be happy to.

Cheers.

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Veritissimo!!

Mis dispiache, il mio Italiano no e molte bene.

 

Adam- Quite a few differences between the 456/456M and the 550-612 engines. Also a lot of similarities, mostly in basic 65 deg layout and cam and auxiliary drives. Solid vs hydraulic lifters is one and single vs dual length intake is another. The 456/456Ms were type F116 engines and the rest were type F133 variants.

 

Thanks Taz: the depth of your knowledge is extraordinary. “Technical stuff” seems to fascinate you. Hope I not being intrusive but maybe your WSO experience explains it? I really don’t know.

Anyways my understanding was that the 456 engine was essentially a de-tuned and smaller engine than in the 550/575- but I not a technical guy at all. And the 612? How the engine there compare to the 550/575? I would guess a little bigger based on the Ferrari “car-naming methodology” but still the same overall design?

 

Hi,

De-tumed? No! Smaller??? No! It is essentially the same engine, but the early one has the "Dino" style firing order, where cylinders accross the banks fire parallel. The later ones are like Lambo and Jaguar V12's regarding the firing order, like two sixes firing from opposite directions (one front to back and the other one back to front). See me waving my hands...?

The 456 GT is my first (and last?) Ferrari, but I had been lurking for decades, back in 1996 the 250 GT/E could have been my 1st cars, but instead I chose the Series 1 2+2 E-type Jaguar. Yes, I have perhaps a slightly different perspective than some of you, I loved the 456 when it was announced in 1992 and two decades later I thought it was the last true 2+2 GT car built with the tradition Ferrari and Pininfarina had developed from the late 1950's onwards and a luxyry car that can be serviced by a DIY hobbyist who is willing to take the time to do it right.

The 456 is the last model Ferrari named according the tradition of using the volume of a single cylinder, 456 cubic centimeters (times twelve equals ca. 5.5 liters). The 550, 575 and 612 are just numbers, the engines are not (much) bigger. Yes, they have more power, Ferrari was able to get more HP out of them later, and the 612 engine is slightly larger, but that is normal development and the 456 GT is as powerful as it could be at the time, given the rules ít had to follow.

I would not have bought a red one, nor an automatic one, but that's just my personal liking for this model and GT cars in general.

Go and see as many cars as you can, I was looking for one for ca six months and went to see seven cars, and test drove three of them. The last one I bought as I thought it was the best combination for me and it felt good on the 20-30 min test drive, no issues with the steering nor suspension unlike the two other cars I had driven. (Jerky steering column, really harsh rear suspension, failed actuators or accumulators?)

Timing belts have to be changed every 60 months (back in the 1990's it was 36 months, but if using the upgraded 575 components, 60 months is the recommended interval, if I understood Taz right).

Fantastic car if you ask me. Just like my E-type, it makes me smile every time I look at it!

 

I stand corrected!! Haha!! Thanks for the explanation Pekka, as I said I’m not a “technical guy”!!

I do agree with you 100% re the 456 as being very possibly the last great GT/2+2 from the venerable Pinafarina design house. And a “front 12” with a 3 peddle? I don’t think many here will argue that it will be the last, great front PRODUCTION v-12 3 pedal GT/2+2 ever, one-offs not withstanding (anyone seen pics of estate wagon 456 done for the Sultan of Brunei.

Temple

 

Pekka may I ask why you wrote: “the 456 GT is my first (and last?) Ferrari”? Feel free to PM if you wish.

Temple

 

A red 456M GTa was my first Ferrari. It was perfect. Even fun on a track. I enjoyed touring with it, and no matter what anyone says, an automatic is perfect for that.

Plus, it's the most beautiful V12 of the modern era. Pininfarina was very proud of it.
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I would have kept it forever if it was a manual, but what I really wanted was a 360 stick, so that's what I have now.

 

Curiosity question...
Is it possible to shoot a paint gun through a wrapped car?
Therefore, determine consistent thickness of the paint beneath, by subtracting the wrap thickness?

 

There is also a 612 in Quebec for $104 CAD, Asking, with 29K on the clock...
Its 35K above the car you are looking at, however, half mileage and a 612, less maintenance

 

I was responding above to the original poster, Still trying to figure how to quote. The original poster said:

The 456 I was looking at here, locally, at a dealership - I spent some time on the phone with a salesman - seems the 'original colour was Silver, but we decided to wrap it in 'red' to make it more appealing' .... I don't know for you, but to me this raises a big red flag... (not the fact he said red instead of rosso corsa) why would one wrap a Ferrari ?

 

You never buy an F car with your brain, only (or mostly) with your heart. I like the fact that the transmission is "well suited" for the car, so was the case in Mr Enzo's 412 which are now a collector's item.
Don't be afraid of the cam belt, a good dedicated mechanic will have fun with that...another trip to Toronto (every 6 years-and not 3!), a visit to your uncle and his 35 year old 308. What's the problem?

 

I’ve changed belts in my 308 and 456. The 456 is easier due to access

 

But probably only a little easier (wink, wink)

 

Pekka, Temple- 550 stands for 5.50 liters (5474 cc) and 575 stands for 5.75 liters (5748 cc), so not just numbers. And that is another traditional Ferrari naming standard dating back quite a ways, like the 400 Superamerica, 500 Superfast and even earlier. The 612 stands for 6 liter 12 cylinder, quite a round-up since its engine is exactly the same size as the 575 engine and largely identical except for manifold and ECU differences. Did not really want those customers for $300-400K 612s to know their engine was a carry over. 599 stands for 5.99 liters, actually 5999 cc.

 

Hi Taz,

Yes, but the 250/275/365/308/456 numbering was the tradition I was referring to.

Yes, I am aware of the "other logics" like 312 and 335 etc and of course I did not mean 550/575/612 would be just random numbers, but it does follow the bigger is better marketing strategy.

Still I don't think the 500 in the Superfast meant anything, it just sounds and looks good.

Cheers!

 

Pekka- It meant 5.00 liter engine in the Superfast, 4963 cc. 308 means 3.0 liter V8, otherwise the displacement would have been 2464 cc. Ferrari used many systems over the years, individual cylinder displacement was used first on the V12s and some of the 4 and 6 cylinders. Other systems were mixed in very soon, like the 246 Dinos in F1 in the 50s and early 60s. The 290S, 315S, and 335S also used the early system for cylinder displacement when engine size was not limited. Got tired of competing with 5 liter Maserati V8s.

 

Hi Taz,

Sure, no prob. I have heard that theory, but there are serious irregularities with some of those special cars and their numbers. Anyways I liked the fact that the 456 was named that way.

And to the OP: I simply meant that the vintage Ferraris I would like to own some day, are totally out if reach and I don't like most modern cars (which you may have guessed if my 1st car was an E-type 3 years older than me). The 456 is the most modern car I own now, and most likely it will stay that way. We have no need for a DD. The "other" cars were made in 1950, 1966, 1972 and 1975.

Cheers!

 

Mostly, Ferrari indulge in some post-facto logic to justify model names and numbers; and they have a particular dislike of being second-guessed ahead of time. Most people thought and stated quite confidently that after the 550 and 575 would come the 600, and rumour is that is what it was due to be called (for 6.00 litre) until di Montezemolo got irritated at being told this, and called it the 599, logic as Taz explains above.

Next came not the 630, for 6.30 litre engine (Maranello logic), or the 626 (599 logic) or the 6312 (F512M logic, kind of) but the F12 (for 12 cylinder Ferrari, which could have been applied to most models in Ferrari history).

And the F12's and its facelift was called the 650. Oh, no, wrong logic, it was called the F12M, for Modificato. Oh, wrong logic bank again! Was it called the 542, using the same logic as the 456 name? Um, no. It was called 812, because it had 800 hp and 12 cylinders. And it was super fast! But not as fast as its replacement, which will not be called the 912 Evenfaster, or the 700 (for 7 litre), or anything we can guess, but will have a logic all of its own, which will seem reasonable when we look back on it. Maybe!

Go through the lineage a bit and we have:

365 - for individual cylinder capacity
Testarossa - just a name
512 - for 5 litre, 12 cylinder
550 - 5.5 litre
575 - 5.75 litre
599 - 5999 cc (suddenly Ferrari was calculating to significant figures)
F12 - 12 cylinder Ferrari
812 - 800 hp, 12 cylinder, very very fast
next - who knows.

And the 612 - like the 512TR and F512M, five litres, 12 cylinders; great. Except the 612 is actually a 5.75 litre engine, so when they named it they were rounding up to the nearest litre, while the 599 is rounded to the nearest 10 cc.

Ferrari logic, but maybe that's why they make such great cars.

 

Themaven, Thank you for the naming methodology. I had always wondered what their logic was now I know they really have no consistency in their naming.

 

Yes, it's like there's a horror of a consistent naming progression. I realise this thread was about 456, named after individual cylinder capacity. It's successor was the 612, named after engine size to the nearest litre to one significant figure (as above; it's actually 5.75 litres) and 12 cyls. Successor to that, the FF. Fast Four Wheel Drive Ferrari, various guesses on that one. The facelifted FF is called..GTC4Lusso.
Which would make Ferrari a laughing stock except they carry on making amazing cars.

 

@op: I messaged you. I've got one that may fit your bill.

 

Mat pm’ing you. Thanks.

Temple

 

Seems like a big call saying the 612's F1 is "light years better" than the 456's conventional auto -- can you expand on that?

My only experience with the old single-clutch F1 was in a 360 and it was the 2nd worst trans I've ever driven, better only than the "sportshift" in the early Aston V8 Vantage. I've also heard bad things about the livability of the 575's F1 box, especially in town, though by the 599 they seem to have improved things. I'd always figured better to stay clear of the 612 for the F1 box alone, but I admit I've never driven one and the prices are starting to look attractive. Is the F1 612 really that much better than the 575's F1 and/or the 456's auto for urban & country cruising? Or should I keep watching the FF shed a 3-series in value each year and look for one in a couple years and get the next-gen V12 and dual-clutch box?

(Sorry if this is a bit tangential to the thread.)