First Oil Change on my 348 went like crap

I read posts on how to do it, must have missed the ones about how easy the sump drain plug strips because...yep...I stripped mine! So i removed the four bolts on the bottom of the tank to see if i could get it back on. Should I just leave it stripped if it doesnt leak? That gasket down there was caked on pretty good...I had to use a screwdriver to get it off...There are minor nicks on the metal where the gasket goes. Will these pose a problem? I have to order a new gasket and put it back together...Once i do that, I am doing the oil changes with a pump....im not messing with that drain plug anymore! Im sure this is a dumb question, but just for clarification...you refill the oil in the sump where you pull the dipstick out of correct? The only reason I ask is because I guess it would be feasible to add it where the oil filter sits.. Also...could you tilt your car at a forward angle where all the oil drains into the main tank so that you wouldnt have to mess with that sump. What a terrible design on that plug. I'm pretty ticked about the way this went. I hope the clutch and T/O bearing im replacing go smoother then this.

 

Hi Aaron,

Sent you a private message... I can use a little help myself.

Does your 348 Workshop Manual on CD deal with the 2.5 or the 2.7 Motronic injection system? I cannot seem to find anyone who has the 2.7 version on CD.

 

Ferrari went to the expense to put those plugs in and the locations were chosen for a reason, and it was not for an engineering exercise. Those are the locations and methods to change/drain the oil and the only places. If you find it too inconvienent do, pay someone to do it for you.

 

Well, then they should have built a better plug, considering this is done every 3,000 miles. And doing an oil change shouldn't be rocket science...and don't act like I am the first person to do this. BTW, I appreciate your condesending comment...makes me happier about a situation that I am already happy about.

 

What does the location of the plug have anything to do with stripping it????

tmobileguy - Sorry to hear this. I'm not sure if this is the correct term, but can you Heli-coil it?

 

This is very common on the 348's and even the TR. The alumium threads are way to soft. I have had to repair about half a dozen of these. I just take it to my machine shop and have them drill..install a timesert and it good for the life of the car. It only costs about 100 bucks..Don't get discouraged. I have had them come into the shop with only 2 threads holding the drain plug into the resivour with silicone tring to keep the oil in!!

 

Yep, terrible situation. What about just having a new hole tapped, slightly bigger and a new plug. First find out if there is a larger plug available at the parts store - does not have to be ferrari plug(probably $87.50).

Ain't the first time something will go wrong but, it will never happen again, I guarantee.

 

I was refering to his desire to either suck out the oil instead, or avoid pulling the engine plug.

As far as stripping it goes yes, like many things Ferrari it is fragile, people like Tom and I deal with it every day. If properly treated the plug threads can last forever. Not every car is built like a Catapillar tractor. Chances are great that the plug threads were damaged before tmobileguy ever touched it, again something Tom and I deal with every day.

 

I'll bet you could turn out one of those plates from a 1/4" scrap of metal stock, using a band saw and a drill press, in just a few minutes. Then tap it for whatever drain plug you want to use, and hey presto, it IS built like a Catapillar (sp?) tractor! Spray it with silver paint, and no one would ever notice that it wasn't original. You'd need a breaker bar with a big extension to strip it.

I see that Ferrari shows the threaded insert on the plate as a separate part. What is actually being stripped? The plate, the insert, or the plug?

 

Lots of them came without a helicoil installed as pictured. Yes it is a simple part and could be fabricated easily but as Tom and I mentioned before we have fixed a few and its pretty simple. Just dont go to Ferrari for the helicoil, thats all you get, a helicoil, no installation tool is made. Get a new plug and go to either a really good hardware store, parts house or better yet if you live in a large metro area a fastener supply store and buy a helicoil kit and follow the directions to the letter. If you can drill and tap with a drill press or mill that would be best. That plug needs to be straight.

 

Yes, its that plate that is stripped...I can take it in somewhere I just don't know what type of shop to take it into. Would you recommend to do..Helicoil, take it to a welding shop? What do you think would be the cost of whatever you would suggest? And when filling the oil back up (again), does it go in the hole that the dipstick screws into?

 

There are several solutions to this. If you are going to drain the oil by removing the plate each time, instead of removing the drain plug, then you don't need the drain plug. Have the hole welded shut and grind it smooth. Or epoxy the old plug into place. Or install a new plate made from stock with no drain plug on it at all. Or buy a new plate and drain plug. Or have the old plate repaired with the good methods described here.

I wouldn't consider using a suction pump to drain the tank, I don't believe you could get all of the old oil out, and the dirtiest stuff is going to be at the bottom.

When adding the new oil, yes, it goes into the sump tank through the same hole as the dipstick/cap.

You DID drain the engine as well as the tank, correct?

 

Just curious, how do you SUCK the oil out? Is there a particular device? If so what is the device or just any suction pump?

BTW I feel your pain.

 

Yes, I did drain the other plug as well, where most of the oil came out of. I had to take that metal plate off of the car to get to it. If you score the surface of where the plate and gasket meet, will the gasket still hold the oil? Its nicked up a tad from trying to remove the old gasket material.

 

Take the plate to a good automotive machine shop and they can either rethread it to a generic plug or install a helicoil to fit an OE plug. Installing a helicoil will be a more durable fix but will cost more. While you are there get a tube of Locktite 518 (great stuff It's what Ferrari finally found will keep cars from leaking) and use that on the gasket surface.

 

Aaron...Keep your head up. As stated before, this is not that big of a deal. Your 348 is just trying to have a little "fun" with you...It will calm down soon!!

-Jay

 

It's called a LiquidVac (or LiquiVac) -- I have one here and it works great when you don't want to drain from below. See the writeup and pics at http://www.camerafilters.com/ec/EasyOilChange.htm

 

AAron, use a little "Gask-A-Cinch" (sp) on both surfaces and gasket. If it still leaks then use a gasket making caulk material. One of them should hold her.

Good Luck.

BTW, if you decide to suction out your oil you could possibly miss a lot of contaminates around the bottom. When you reinstall the plug, put some anti-sieze compound on the threads.

 

I'm a LiquiVac user same as Mike. A post by a fellow Fchat user said he uses it twice and then the third time drains the oil through the drain plug to get out the gunk. I used it for the first time a couple of weeks ago and LOVE IT! It was so nice not to have to jack up the car, lower it, get on the ground, yada, yada, yada. I stuck in the hose, unclipped it and farted around the garage tinkering and came back later and wiggled the hose around to get as much out as possible. I then capped off the tank and took it to a recycle place and DIDN'T SPILL A DROP THE ENTIRE TIME!

 

Aaron - sorry to hear of your problems. That really sounds like a stressful, painful, and expensive PITA. Next time, make sure to post a query on Fchat for tips & techniques before you begin. I'd be LOST on my 348 if it wasn't for folks like ernie, ShanB, Miltonian, and Fatbillybob's postings.

Now, having said all that...

1. Once you get the sump plug fixed, never remove it again! When I order parts from Sodacoms, I order the main plug, the sump gasket, and a new filter. Removing the 4 screws that hold the plate was a little tip that I learned from the person who sold me the car. I never would have known it unless somebody told me ahead of time.

2. Yes, it's easy to scratch that metal plate when removing the gasket. Next time, use some gasket goo and a straight razor. It'll come off -- but it takes a little while.

3. Don't sweat the small stuff. Make SURE you convert Liters to Quarts before you start filling up the car! I made a tiny little math error, and was suprised when I needed to run back to PepBoys for another two bottles of Mobil1.

Hang in there!

-d

 

Sorry for the mishap but this is how these cars get a bad rap. DIY'ers who do what FErrari did not intend. Stick to things by the book unless you have a firm understanding if what you are doing. Working on cars when you are not trained in cars is just like being a lawyer. You have to anticipate what the other guy will do so that your contracts are ironclad. Everything in a Ferrari is aluminium and steel. Nobody has any reason to start a hard fastener into soft metal with anything but by hand. Take this as a leson to always start hard things to soft things by hand before you put a wrench to them. On your steel to steel chevy you have the cat tractor analogy. Take things slow. You need to spend more time on the simple projects before you do your clutch. While guys like me talk about how simple clutch are to do there are lots of steps and little things that we take for granted. Ferraris are just cars but things like hard fasteners into soft metal make things just a bit more of a thinking man's game. Really I know you are pissed but you have to take responsibility for yourself. It is not the car it is the owner who is not anticipating what Ferrari is doing and not understanding basic mechanical properties. Yes they could have desinged things differently but they have reasons. If Ferrari used fasteners 2 thimes too long and steel blocks they would be called corvettes. Some dump ferrari tricks are good and some are just because they are the cheapest suckers on the planet! I don't mean to piss you off but welcome to ferrari ownership. Take the time to understand the basics like how a clutch works and how Ferrari designed theirs to work before you take yours apart or you will be sorry. There are lots of things a newbie can destroy in there. Fianlly, do the job right remove the plate and have any machine shop helicoil to the Ferrari OEM plug. When you just replug to a new size half the time they are SAE and then the next guy runis something thinking everything is metric and you just cause new problems. Be consistent be OEM.

 

Aaron,

Sorry to hear about this. I did the clutch, FW, and throwout bearing on mine (with the help of many who have posted on this thread). Aside from a few mistakes, which were not that bad. I had a lot of fun. My experience, with pictures, is in the old archives. Search under "348 hot start problem"

Good luck, take it slow, and ask lots of questions. The support here is fantastic!!!!

 

Aaron,

Recommend doing what FBB suggests and use a new 'OEM' plug, think of that next owner down the line. You may well be in the trouble you are now because the last owner bodged the job, damaged the thread and covered it up! I certainly don't advocate replacement of the tank base by a homemade 'plugless' flat plate!

 

THANKS!

 

To help avoid/reduce this problem, use aluminium washers instead of copper.

With Copper, there are three dissimilar metals involved...Aluminium tank, steel plug and copper washer. This causes chemical/electrical reactions that any good boat builder will know all about.

Just check the hull of most boats..they have electrodes to stabilise corrosion.

Using aluminium washers removes one of the dissimilar metals, reducing the problem.

They do cost about twice as much though.

I use them in most applications now, and Ferrari have been using them in a few places too.

You can get Dowdy or Dowty types, which have a rubber seal built in, these are even more expensive, but very good.

Finally of course...dont reef on the ratchet so flipping hard when doing the plug up. It's only got to hold oil inside, it's not a wheel!

30Nm or 22lb ft is ample for most. The big TR/BB etc Gearbox drains can be a bit more though.