First Service (since I owned the car)...Whoa! $10K

Funny, I got a Testarossa itch last year too. I need a bigger house/garage before I add more fun cars though. I fell for a black/tan 512TR at a concours last year and wanted to propose to the car on the spot.

Absolutely. You've got the best production Ferrari of the last 30+ years in your garage. Savor it. Hands down my favorite car I've ever owned or driven and the best automotive money I've spent in my life.

 

damn i want one badly.

 

My how the Ferrari service industry has changed over the years! I didnt even look at the invoice posted but I am taken back by some of the comments.

Rest assured, you will pay for the shop supplies. Hidden or up front. This time or next time. Want each part itemized? Pay a higher labor rate for the tech and front desk to itemize each supply item used. Nothing is free in this industry or yours. Shop rags are now over the top stupid money due to EPA tack on charges. 911 has brought insane insurance costs to this industry. All of the cleaning chemicals have sky rocketed and now each oz. has to be tracked. We could take apart the Telecom industry and see how the charges are burried but rest assured, they are there! Want something for free? I have run into customers like that, once.

Funniest thing is early this week I spent near a full hour on the phone with a person I have never met nor am I likely to (as he is 2000 miles away) trying to talk him through an odd problem with his Ferrari. Two days later I read on this site how all shops/mechanics are cheats and he fixed it himself at ZERO cost and everyone should do the same. Zero cost to whom? Sad state of affairs, some of us just learn slower and live in a different time I guess.

Dave

 

Joe you got a great car at a great price but in fairness, the seller had paid an independent to rebuild the engine at $10K+ the year before you bought it, so you just bought a car that had $10K dumped into it right BEFORE you owned it!!

I kind of agree that cars of this age are going to need a lot of TLC. For a DIY guy like me, that means a lot of nights working on the car. For a non-DIY person that means paying someone lots of money. When I first got my 308 and was afraid to work on it, I dump $4K into it right away having a shop do the clutch, flywheel, and some other stuff. That frightened me into buying a lift and learning how to work on a Ferrari!

Birdman

 

Hang in there Dave! - there are some good people in the world - as crazy as it has become - and those are the ones who make it all worthwhile, fun, enjoyable & rewarding

everyone gets there in the end - it just takes time

warmest regards,

 

Here's an example. I'm replacing all the coolant hoses and fuel hoses on the Mondial right now as a result of my cooling issue last week. I have about 10 hours into the project so far and I'm not done. I will have about $600 into it in parts including re-coring the radiator. Lets say that by the time I'm done I'll have $600 and 20 hours into it. Maybe an experienced shop could do this whole project in less time than me, say 15 hours. (I'm slow because I have to figure it out as I go). That's $1100 in labor at $75 an hour, plus the markup on the parts (double?) gets you to $1,200 in parts. So replacing hoses and fixing a radiator is "worth" around $2K+ if I had a shop do it. Sounds pretty expensive for just replacing a bunch of hoses, but honestly if I didn't have a lift, this would be such a miserable job, it would be worth the $2K to have a shop do it. I can see how something complicated like a major, A/C work, and a bunch of other stuff can EASILY hit $10K. These are old cars that need a lot of work. I am cheap and poor so I just choose to do the work myself! (Besides, it's bonding, and therapy).

So you either do it yourself or pony up and pay someone else to do it. Either way, it's the price of admission to the old classic car club!

Birdman

 

You're wrong. I paid 40K for my 328 in late 2002, and it's been a great runner for the past 5 years and 55,000 miles. I haven't dropped anything close to 10K into the car yet.

It IS due for a major by the manual, but the estimate from the shop is only in the 6K range and includes quite a bit of extra work.

 

I think Big Red is speaking in absolutes, which you can always find an exception for, but in general what he is saying is right...there is no free lunch. You are not going to find a cheap car that doesn't need work. You can either pay top dollar for a car that needs very little or you can get a cheap car and put the amount you saved into making it "right". Either way ends up costing money. The only way to come out on top of this is if you have the skills/tools/time to do the work yourself and don't factor in your time as a cost.

We all know as it has been said a million times, it is cheaper to buy a car that someone else has "restored" than to do it yourself (or have it done).

Birdman

 

Those folks are the reason I still enjoy coming to work in the morning. Not many can say the same.

Dont ever think I am against folks doing their own repairs. I think it is great that they are involved and support it how ever I can. That makes for a wonderful and trustful relationship when someone comes in and says this one is yours. I respect the effort, it is how most of our folks lived life. Do what you can and find a trusted expert to handle what you cant.
Free ride? A sign of the times I guess.

Dave

 

I'm afraid Ferrari labor rates have gone up to $120 per hour - or more.

 

+1!

You did fine, Nero328. Enjoy the car.

-Peter (let's not get into the "shop supplies," "environmental charges," "tire disposal" and ALL the other stuff that now costs a sizable chunk of any LEGITIMATE business' expenses... Suffice it to say, they're not ALL a scam...)

 

Dave,

Are you still in CO, or did you go to Kansas with Parr?????


Hang in there, padner!!!

You'll note my comment on consumables, you DO pay for that in most service industries, as a line item or in the overhead.......

 

We're in violent agreement.

We all wax poetic (or get a good detailer to do it) about saving tens of thousands in depreciation by going with a 308/328. It's true. But the costs are all on the maintenance/service side. There's a reason people buy new Lexuses: they make the opposite choice - zero repairs, major depreciation, low excitement/individuality.

The trap is that a "$40K Ferrari" is not a $40K Ferrari. That's why I throw my hands up (or just throw up generally) when people post here about how they can afford $35K for a 1980 308 GTSi but could never do $42K for the 1984 308 GTSi QV. If that $7K looms that large, you don't understand the whole deal with the devil you're making to put a Ferrari key on your keyring.

I think we're still at $100 here in San Diego, at least at an excellent independent shop. Not sure about FoSD.

 

My original budget was high 40s.. I am pushing 80k into my car...

 

Yeah, I'm sure you are right. I was just pulling out a number for an example.

Birdman

 

Heck no, Im still in CO and operate Scuderia Rampante. Thats more than a full time job for me. I think they will plant me here as we enjoy it so much.
I was training Parr's tech and trying to help Doug and Chris get things set up in KS at their shop.
Your comment was spot on.

Dave

 

Thanks!

 

Well, TLC as in, clean the leather, clean the carpets, clean the vinyl, polish the exposed metal. Get rid of 20 years of grime under the hoods (and in the shifter box). Clean the wheel wells and under the car. Refurb those rear badges. Worn leather? Yep, worn, not ripped. A good dye job (that makes it look very good, but not new) costs under $300USD here in Florida. No tampered wiring (yet). Well, except for Birdman's fuse box, but that doesn't count. My point is there are 308s outs there for under 30K that are damn good drivers and that have not been abused. There are also low mileage garage queens in the 40s with great service records that will need $15K to be reliable. If your point was that there are no SHOW QUALITY cars out there for under $30K, then I agree whole heartedly. However to say every "low" priced 3x8 is a p.o.s. needed major service is way off base.

 

You just have to shop around.....

I started buying when they first dropped below $30K about ten years ago....I'll admit there's very few good early cars at the number now....

And you have to be ready to jump the plane and GO, when they pop up....

 

Didn't think we were talking about getting rich off of 308s! Man if that is possible, someone please tell me how!

My point is this: you can find a good driving 308 for around 30K that doesn't need a major bunch of work to it. And the belt change is standard maintenance on a Ferrari. I don't consider that to be part of the price. And that belt change is coming at the 3 year point (not 5, I decided to follow the new Ferrari service schedule) a mere 1.5 years AFTER I bought the car. Now before I take in the shorts for saying I don't consider maintenance part of the price, I do, to a certain extent. If the car has deferred service, or is leaking like a sieve, or bouncing going down the road, then yes, that should be considered in the price. But the normal wear items will be present on any car under 40K.

And Birdman, you are correct and I sit corrected. That engine work would bring the car to around $34K if it was needed. (after talking with him Birdman, I don't think it was needed. Sounded preventative at best, but, that is a beer story I think) About what you'd expect from for that car and pretty close to Bullfighters estimate.

What was I trying to say, and not well it seems, you can't get a 90 point 308 for under 30K. You will end up putting a ton of money into it to get it that way. But, you can get a reliable Italian car (oxymoron?) if you search. Not every sub $30K or $40K car is a ticking timebomb. Not every owner is lying about their car. That is like saying every mechanic is a cheat. Was I lucky? Hell ya! As Birdman said, I was bloody lucky. However, I've seen others with asking prices that are close enough to $30K (with records, numbers, etc) I am sure you could get them for that if you can wait it out. Will you get a car that is apple of the judges eye? Hell no! But, you can get a car you can be proud of...



And on a serious side note, why do you consider a belt change to be a "major"? If,at least according to the paperwork I have and Ferrari's schedule, that (plus tensioners) is the only thing due at the time why is that a major? Or is just "normal" practice to do preventive work on a bunch of other stuff at the same time? (I should say at this point that in my case the whole upper end was rebuilt just a couple of years ago. Now that was a case of someone getting bent over with fine quality lubricants. After talking a few very learned people the price should have been half of what it was).

 

Im wrong?....now we are using 2002 numbers...lol !!! in 2007 ok..... hey lets us Dino numbers then from 1996 when they were giving them away, while were at it why not use shop rate numbers and part prices from 2002 as well ?

You know what my house was worth in 2002 compared to today ?

People , lets compare apples with apples....i have yet to see any 308/328 worth 30k that was respectable.

Someone here in Toronto bought a 328 just 2 months ago on ebay for 52K CDN after the tranfer, taxes, exchange and delivery....the oil coolers were hanging on with twist ties, and he had a PPI done in florida by someone who was very respected (which shall remain nameless)...the car needed 30K to get back in order to run...bend hoods, lights that didnt open correctly.....so dont give me this 30k you can buy a 20-30 yr old ferrari that runs and looks good,....cause it doesnt.
There maybe will be the exception, but the other 9 out 10 cars are what i say they are.

 

You just got ratted out that a 10K engine over haul was done on your car last year... you got lucky ...LUCKY !! that engine could have pooched on you now...the owner probably had enough, time will tell how great this car will be for you...all im saying is you get what you pay for, there are no free rides....but at 65,000 miles, you got some work coming your way no matter how great the car is...trust me.

 

Well, I guess I’m the exception. I bought my 328 a few months ago for 32K. The interior is worn, but not bad, and the engine is running great.

The only issues I’ve had with it so far were a broken alternator belt, easily fixed, and some slight missing on acceleration which turned out to be just the extenders. I’ve put 1000 miles on it and those are the only issues I’ve had.

Now, at my own volition, I’m about to sink $16,000 or so into it, as I want to make it really pretty, and have the belt service done, Larini exhaust, and completely replace the interior with new material. I’ve been told that I really don’t need to do all this to the engine now, as it checked out pretty good, but I want to. I could have continues to drive it for another few years with maybe just these little things popping up now and then.

Then again, maybe not. That’s why I’m electing to do all of this.

 

Oh, forgot to add that the odometer reading 70K is one of the main reasons for me doing all this preventative maintenance as well.