First Time Buying....

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by SeanH1979, Mar 7, 2019.

  1. SeanH1979

    SeanH1979 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2016
    6's pleasure getting to chat.

    I was hoping some people could shed light and insight on a question I have regarding first "new" Ferrari ownership.

    I'm looking at a bunch of different Ferrari's and long-term, I hope to have a few, but I'm still kind of in the early stages of this process, but with a much clearer long-term goal of where I'd like to be.

    One of the things that I do believe is very brand specific (and justifiably so) is the way Ferrari chooses to keep the exclusivity of their brand, controlling units, and especially with new models, who gets to buy them, etc.

    At the same time, what I have been curious about is, if there is a brand new model out, I'll use the 812 Super Fast as an example, and I am interested in buying a new model Ferrari, assuming a brand new Ferrari ordered direct from a dealer, custom build, is off the table (for a first time buyer), I've seen that, within several months of these new models hitting the streets, some people choose to trade them in, re-sell them, and even Ferrari dealers across the country, have relatively brand new 812's available, for sale, and visible to the public.

    If you see "the newest model" with 200-700 miles on it, listed on Dupont Registry, is that a car that is available for purchase to a first time owner. Maybe I should assume "yes", but I guess...I would rather just not assume.

    For my own research sake, to be knowledgeable going through the process, doing my homework, and due diligence, I was just curious if it's possible, as a first time buyer, if they will sell the "new" previously owned cars, or if there is still an attempt to retain or hold the exclusivity and availability of even the newer pre-owned models, for more long-time customers, even if they have 300 miles or something, one owner previously held the car for 4-5 months, traded it in.

    I would add, as a caveat, also ask, if a dealer, by chance, actually had a brand new 812 for sale on the floor, given that it wasn't built to a customer's specific design, would this car potentially available to a first time buyer, at the right price? I've seen this in some extremely rare situations, but even, maybe, some dealers would buy them just to have a few new ones available on the floor (if that happens, I can't say for certain).

    Given the limited production, limited availability of these cars, if you really love the new model, plan on buying or owning multiple Ferrari's, even classics in the long-term, I guess, what can a first time customer expect going through the process if you find the right car, but the newest one is "the right one" (right color, options, something you want and want to keep).

    People have told me a lot of buyers get-in, and get-out, and I respect and appreciate that. Personally, I'd like to get something with the intention of keeping it and holding on to it, with the option to get out of it later on (hopefully years later on).

    Really, as I said, I understand full well the purpose of exclusivity, the purpose of limiting the new cars to long-time customers, and at the same time, I think, if you're looking for something specific, and a specific model with specific specs, these cars can take some time to come around available again, and I guess, there are scenarios where a buyer may seek a collection of Ferrari's, but "the newest one" is "the right one right now".

    I hope that made sense. Any thoughts, feed-back will be greatly appreciated. As I stated, I totally understand, and being a Capitalist, I have full appreciation for what Ferrari is trying to do accomplish where it wants go. I know folks can debate, bicker about it, but to me, I think it helps keep a mystique with that car, keep it original. People put a lot of energy, effort, resources into building custom exotic cars, I imagine it's hard to see them be unappreciated or even not taken care of by folks who don't care of their stuff.
  2. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Dec 11, 2001
    On the Limit
    Full Name:
    I know you are a newbie and there is a 'specialness' to Ferrari. However, here is the low down. FNA doesn't let dealers sell over MSRP for new cars.

    The dealers have good customers who will order heavily optioned cars (that Ferrari wants and makes the dealers meet option quotas). These customers drive the cars for a short period and 'sell' them back to the dealer for what they paid. Then the dealer puts it up for sale for $50, $100K or whatever over MSRP. That's where you come in.... or whomever is willing to 'pay up'.

    So, what's in it for the original customer? He gets to drive a car for basically free. Gets a buying history with the factory and maybe gets a shot at something special. The dealer gets to make $100K on guys like you. Everyone is happy.

    I hope I didn't take the shine off.
    Carnut, SeanH1979 and Way2fast like this.
  3. RonH

    RonH Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 29, 2016
    Newport Coast, California
    Full Name:
    Ron H
    Personally, I don't know the answer to any of your questions. My approach is much more simple. I tend to find relatively unique cars that I like a lot. They tend to be the top end of a particular manufacturer’s product line and I buy them a couple of years old with low mileage and at hugely depreciated prices. I tend to heavily shop them (kind of like going on a big game safari) and get precisely what I want and then keep them for a very long time and enjoy them.

    With that approach I thought about Ferrari. I do like the cachet and uniqueness of the brand. So I applied my above “formula” and found what I wanted and am very happy. So frankly I have never bothered to think much deeper about Ferrari ownership than that.

    You sound like you need to know “how the sausage is made”. I know that a lot of people on this site will have their views but you are also likely to get a lot of divergent views. Since you are a potential buyer, why dont you give a guy like Mike at Yellow Compass a call. He appears to be very knowledgeable and connected with respect to all the ins and outs of Ferrari ownership.
    SeanH1979 likes this.
  4. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Oct 29, 2010
    #4 arizonaitalian, Mar 8, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
    I'm not an expert, but I have the time free, so I'll summarize what I've learned from others:

    You know what they say about "assuming"...

    Newbies order new Ferrari's all the time. Its mostly a matter of "how long do I have to wait". Straight into the dealer off of the street, you can get on the list at some dealers for the entry GT (cali, now portofino) or the entry mid-engine sports car (488, now F8). But its all about demand and timing. Meaning, "early on" in a car's life, this may not be possible. But late in the car's life it usually is. They may literally tell you "on the list, but likely to be 3 years" or something like that.

    If you want to get on the list to order a higher-demand car or move-up your timing to get one, then buy a used Ferrari from the dealer first, or order a lower-demand car from them first.

    Where the "newbie can't get one at all" comes into play is for; limited production, or "special cars" (like Pista for example), or early on in a car's life cycle. Also, high-demand, relatively low-production cars like 812 also would be hard to order as a newbie.

    But this also depends upon your geography. Some markets have long lists of would-be customers. Some don't. Some dealers are more flexible in the pursuit of new customers than others.

    So, to summarize, a newbie can order a new Ferrari, but it depends on:

    - Which model (not all can be had by a newbie)
    - How long has it been out (most cannot be had by a newbie until the model is near the end of its life cycle)
    - Where are you located (all markets don't have the same supply/demand profile)

    A newbie can "buy" their way up the list by spending $$ with the dealer. On used cars and on lower demand new cars. The more you spend, the faster you move up the list.

    Of course anyone can buy any used Ferrari (there might be some corner case out there where its being held hostage or tied to something, but that is very rare).

    Brand new (untitled) Ferrari's do show up at the dealerships from time to time (rare, but not unheard of). Usually (but not always) they are customer-ordered cars that the customer ultimately did not purchase upon arrival (for whatever reason). The dealer will offer those cars to the public. As pointed out in a post above, most likely these will be offered at MSRP. I'm sure the dealer has a pecking order of customers to call about such cars in the rare events they end up with one. But, if its on the floor and listed for sale, I'd bet anyone that wanted to buy it could. That said, this is a corner case that only rarely happens, and then likely only on cars with lower demand profiles (like a lusso or cali in their time).

    Finally, don't over-think it. If you have the money and want a car, go talk to your dealer. Better yet, if you fall outside of a specific dealer's geographic exclusivity, then you can talk to many. (you will have to ask the dealer about their geo zone, I don't recall the miles distance rule)
    SeanH1979 and paulchua like this.
  5. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Moderator Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    Which model(s) were you thinking of getting? That will help the community give you better answers.

    SeanH1979 likes this.

    NYFAIM Karting
    Silver Subscribed Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 22, 2015
    Las Vegas
    Full Name:
    Howard R.
    Lots of good threads about how Ferrari dealerships work. It's like nothing else I've ever experienced, or perhaps I should say it's like nothing I've read about with any other dealerships since I've not bought a new Ferrari at MSRP from a dealer. But I'm always amazed at just how fast these cars depreciate. It's way above my paygrade to be able to buy something that depreciates that fast. The F430 is not an upper echelon Ferrari, but there was one that sold recently on BaT with only 1000 miles for $120k I think. Not sure of the original sticker, but that 1000 miles didn't come cheap. I think most of the good customers that are buying and then reselling back to the dealer are mostly setting themselves up for the halo cars that come out periodically by building up a buying history and moving up the list as mentioned before. Good luck - at some point you just have to jump in at a price point that your comfortable with.
    SeanH1979 likes this.
  7. Metastable

    Metastable Formula Junior

    May 4, 2018
    If it is “used” then you can buy it....if it is on DuPont can buy it. If it is sitting on the showroom for sale..... you can buy it.

    If you want something a bit more special...and want to order it.... that might be a bit different. What Ingenere said is spot-on.
    SeanH1979 likes this.
  8. SeanH1979

    SeanH1979 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2016
    All of these posts have been very helpful, these pretty much answer my question. I was basically inquiring regarding Ferrari's that are the "latest models to come out", and "are they available" if you see them on Dupont Registry, even though, for example, on something like an 812, I would imagine there's a wait list. The advice about the costs were helpful as well. I appreciate everything....summer is coming soon for those of us in cold weather climates, time to get ready one way or the other. All of the advice was really helpful, thanks for your support. Sean
  9. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    Gladwyne PA
    Full Name:
    It just so happens I was at my dealer (Algar Ferrari) yesterday. What Dino says is spot on, though I would add that there are times (Like now ) where you could be the first owner of a Ferrari (488 or Porto). Algar has a couple of each that they are offering for sale, and you will not have to pay 100K over list.
  10. Way2fast

    Way2fast Formula 3

    May 24, 2006
    Santa Barbara County
    Full Name:
    It is amazing how markets change. I put a $5k deposit in 2001 for a 360 spider with manual at MSRP. I was told it would be 3-4 yrs and I was 14th on the list and it would probably be a newer model by then. In 2005 they sent my deposit back without any interest. I threw the check on the shelf while I figured out what to do. The letter with the check said the 360 was no longer being produced and they were refunding my deposit. About 8 months later (May 2006) I received a letter from a judge saying two guys with the same last name had a lawsuit against the dealer and they would like to talk to me. Turns out it was two brothers who were first and second on the list and never received the car. They settled with the dealership in July 2006. My lawyer entered into discussions and I was finally allowed to order my car at MSRP in January 2007. I had to agree to a 2 yr flip agreement not to sell the car. The car arrived in December 2007. Then the recession kicked in. By June of 2008 you could walk into a dealership and purchase a car off the showroom floor for 10% off MSRP

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