First time vintage buyer

probably won't be easy. drive a lot of them, if you can, to get a feel for what you like. it really comes down to what you can afford/want to spend.
i bought a dino gts, made 50% profit in a year, and then sold that to buy a 330 gtc. both cars extremely different! but both also extremely satisfying!
depending on your budget, you can't go wrong with a daytona. if you have more $, 500k, then i would go for a 250 pf cab.
if not that much money to spend, i'd say a 330 gtc. 600 made, awesome to drive and looks great in just about any color.
if you are thinking about 100k range, then go for 2+2s: 365 gtc/4, 330 single headlight, or 250 gte.

just a start not knowing much about what you're looking for.

 

You say you are looking to start a Ferrari collection, so I would guess you mean 3 or more cars. Your budget then would be at least 500k +. Suggest you go and look at as many Ferrari's as you can. In fact if you have no idea what you are interested in by a good book on Ferrari's. Possibly it may be limited by cost. If not, and you have an unlimited account, one 212, a Daytona, and for a modern car possibly an F40. Thats a good variation.
Good luck....

 

i would say that a daytona, 275 gts, or a 330 gtc would seem obvious choices for a first vintage car.

 

Dave,

Two questions:

1. What is your budget? (Vintage Ferraris run from around $100K for a 60's 2+2 to well over $10M for a 250 GTO)

2. What are you looking for in a car? (are youlooking for a beautiful sculpture to put in your living room; something to take an afternoon cruise in the family; a little two seater convertible; etc.)

Answers to these questions will help a lot in getting good guidance from this forum.

Regards,

Art S.

 

Did you just inherit some money or sell your business? It sounds like you have money to burn and are real short of information. Collecting Ferraris isn't like collecting ballpark bobblehead dolls. I would imagine some passion for the marque is a pre-requisite, and that would mean some knowledge comes with the deal.
You sound like a guy, with all due respect, who just bought a new big house and is hiring a decorator to make it look pretty.

If you are going to spend $500k use some of that money and go to Motorbooks on Santa Monica in West Hollywood and buy some books about Ferraris. They are in the same building as Heritage Classics so you may as well go in and smell some vintage car oil and hope it seeps into your consciousness.

If you're talking 250 SWB's and the like, your budget has better expand tenfold or so. Good luck!

 

Buy some very high quality large scale models. You could even have some custom made.

These older cars like to be driven. They will punish you if left sitting for long periods of time.

Its one of two ways:

1. The US economy is heading for an ugly recession. The housing market has years to go before a bottom and possible recovery. Mortgage industry and credit problems are going to get much worse. Things are going to get nasty in the economy. This is likely to have a serious negative impact on collector car values.

2. The dollar has no future. As the US economy suffers and US debt increases the dollar will continue to slide. This will make certain collector cars in the US that have a strong global appeal very attractive to foreign buyers. Wealth from Russia, Eastern Europe, China and the middle east will grow and be looking for cool stuff to buy. Vintage Ferraris at discount prices due to the weak dollar may be just the ticket.

Which one of these will trump the other? THAT is the big question.



Terry

 

Dave,
to answer a few questions you raise.
First, the market. i'm a money manager, and like all investable assets, they will fluctuate (to paraphase JP Morgan). Don't buy a vintage (or any Ferrari for that matter) to make money ONLY. The easy money has been made IMHO. Right now the stock market, bond market, hedge fund market, private equity market and all collectables (art, cars etc) is a phase of repricing risk. In other words, be prepared to wait for price appreciation for your vintage Ferrari. IF we avoid recession, then you will make money by next year. If not.... better be prepared to actually drive it and not let it sit in the garage!

On the dino. Yes, it is an awesome F-car. GTS is my choice, but others prefer the GT. small, tight handling and rare enough to stand out. check out OMGJON thread for a total restoration project and Corbani's saga on his long term ownership to start in the 206/246 space. i wouldn't really worry about buying the absolute best unless you are prepared to pay $225-250 on the spot for the best gts out there. mine was about 100 and sold it for 150 a year later. good driver and was completely happy with the experience.

on to the 330 GTC. totally different from mid engine cars. lots of torque, great balance, classic looks that take some time to grow on you. i love it and it has that classic Ferrari V12 in the front. nothing compares IMHO.

the market for them is quirky b/c the 330 is not a Daytona, not a 250, not a 275 and not a lusso. but combines a lot of those cars into one nice package. and its a great buy at 225 to 250!

i love the daytona, but i felt that i missed that market. now prepare to spend 350+ for the best ones.

one last thing. PLEASE don't buy a vintage Ferrari to park in the garage!!! i agree with others here that you MUST drive these wonderful machines. not only to keep them running properly, but for the actual experience not many people will get to enjoy! my 330 is a gold level and i drive it all the time, even in manhattan (it is a magnet for wild cabbies though - look out!)

enjoy the ride, drive a bunch and buy one. also let us know what you pick and post a few photos.

btw, here is a shot of the 250 pf cab (c) mike sheehan and my 330gtc:
p.s. check out mike's site ferraris-online.com under cars we've sold for some photos of vintage ferraris ...

cheers! tony
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Daytona Spider for you - this is one of the most desired and collected open top Ferraris and you haven't mentioned it!

Just jumping in

 

330GTC is one of the last "rounded cars", along with the Dino...the 365GTS followed but not many made....

Then Ferrari/Pininfarina moves towards the Daytona/Boxer/308 styling, with Bertone tossing in the 308GT4.

I think that's why the 330 market is rising so rapidly right now, it definately marks a turning point in the styling.

Good luck on your search!

If someone handed me a bag of money, it'd be a coin toss.....something like a 512BB/LM would keep you busy for awhile.....LOL!

At least the neighbors would know, when you fired it up and backed it out.........

 

Vintage Ferrari collectors can weather any financial storm. We are seeing a lot of cars rolled out at a valuation peak right now, but I wouldn't expact Vintage values to slide much, it'll just take longer to move a car.

We'll just see the vintage V12s finally catch and pass the American Muscle craze....LOL!

 

The 330 GTC Ferrari that you are learning about has historia of the Ferrari Superfast, here is one now for sale, a rare

http://www.ferraris-online.com/pages/carintro.php?reqcardir=FE-500SF-6305

 

I hope the Ferrari's catch muscle cars. that is a market that is in bubble popping zone.

Unfortunately, recessions touch everybody. Here's what happened during the the recession of the early 90s to the most celebrated F-car, the GTO:

"By the late '70s the collector car market had started to blossom and prices were rising. 250 GTO S/N 3757 went to Nick Mason, drummer for Pink Floyd, for approximately $86,000 in 1978. In the early 1980s Ferrari prices continued to rise, and Joe Marchetti paid what was then the unbelievably high price of $285,000 for 250 GTO S/N 4091.

In 1985. as the Ferrari market gathered momentum, 250 GTO S/N 3987 sold to Ralph Lauren of Polo fame for $650,000, and S/N 3705 went to Yoshiyuki Hayashi for $500,000.

In 1986 the Ferrari frenzy was gathering steam and S/N 3589 went to Frank Gallogly for $1 million. Mr. Gallogly did well with his 250 GTO, selling it in August of 1988, to Bert Stieger in Switzerland for $4.2 million

The Ferrari madness of the late 1980's peaked in 1989 with the sale by this author of 250 GTO S/N 3909 to Kato in Japan for $13,837,500. The only higher price ever paid for a Ferrari was $17,000,000, paid in January 1990 to Arnold and Werner Meier of Switzerland for their 330 GTO, S/N 4561 SA.

By 1990, the collector car market had sarted to collapse, and 250 GTO S/N 3607 was sold to Giorgio Perfetti in Switzerland for what seemed like a bargain at $9,588,780.

The market bottom was defined in January 1993 with 250 GTO S/N 4219 going to Brandon Wang for $3.5m and, in Septmeber of 1994, with the ex–Kato car (S/N 3909), previosuly purchased for $13,837,500, going to John Collins of Talacrest for $2.7m.

But no bear market lasts forever, and by 1996 the Ferrari market was again on the rise. 250 GTO S/N 3455 went to Matsuda in Japan for $4.2m, and 250GTO S/N 4293 sold to Patrick Ma in Hong Kong for $4.1m.

In the late '90s, prices continued to rise. Out of respect for the privacy of the recent purchasers, we won't name any names. However, S/N 3729 went to a Northwest SCM'er for $5.25m; S/N 3413 to another SCM'er in the same region for $5.5m; S/N 3909 to the Bay Area for $7m; and, in the highest price recorded in the recent market, 250 GTO S/N 4293 was sold to an SCM'er in Asia for $9m, a number close to the nose–bleed prices of late 1989."

http://www.****************/library/view_article.php?id=51

Just food for thought b/c everything that is collectable is cyclical and has a lot to do with economic conditions! My point is that you should buy to the level of your pain threshold with something illiquid like cars. You can dump a listed stock or bond in a second if you have to and you know what price you will get. Not a Ferrari.

To quote above again "in Septmeber of 1994, with the ex–Kato car (S/N 3909), previosuly purchased for $13,837,500, going to John Collins of Talacrest for $2.7m." That is over $10 M loss in just 5 years (89-94 a big recession that was preceded by guess what, a housing bubble popping)!!!!

IF we avoid recession, and I HOPE WE DO, the Ferrari market will thrive! At the end of the day, I'm long-term bullish on Ferrari's and the market as a whole. I feel that you can get huge satisfaction out of owning a Ferrari through a bear market/recession unlike holding some stock in your portfolio! Now's not the time to buy JUST for economic reasons.

wheh. pretty long winded, but i'll get off my soapbox now! market up 331 points today- celebrate!

 

While I don't disagree that most (all?) markets are cyclical, the Ferrari price bust of the early 90s had very little to do with US economic conditions at that time, and a lot to do with several things: 1) an overheated market in Ferraris after Enzo's death deflating; 2) The Japanese market for Ferraris, and many other collectibles, collapsing.

As proof, note that while prices went up in the late 90s, especially of gold-standard cars like the GTO, prices of more ordinary collector Ferraris stayed low throughout the 90s, even as the economy boomed.

 

go for a 250LM or a alloy 250 swb.,

 

500 Superfast is much more rare-- only 36 made, most went to celebrities when new. The Sheehan car is one of the few that didn't go to a household name.

Sheehan wrote an article a few years back listing each car and it's history.

Of course, a Superfast is twice the price (or more) of a 330GTC.

Are you really looking to rationalize the purchase of a 330GTC?

 

I've been wondering about this thread. Someone who has no idea about vintage Ferraris shows up with $500K burning a hole in his pocket. He wants to spend this money on 'vintage Ferraris' to display as trophys and as investments. Then rather than reading up on the subject and seeking out experts, he seeks out an internet forum to guide him on spending his half million dollars. While if his intentions are sincere I think he is getting pretty good advice; this strikes me as a new and interesting trolling approach.

Regards,

Art S.

 

Fraud....?! Timewaister....or very naive. Too vague for me. Something like: I like girls, but please tell me what is a nice one...
oscar

 

I want EVERY GIRL, nice and the bad one!