My wife and I bought our first Ferrari about 6 months ago, a Nero Metallic 1986 328 GTB. Image Unavailable, Please Login We have had a blast with the car so far, but it is time to dig in and fix a couple of annoying items. I want to start with two oil leaks that I have pinpointed-the shift shaft seal(s) and the distributor shaft seal. This is a picture of the rear? (closest to the firewall) distributer. There is oil on the wires and surrounding areas. Image Unavailable, Please Login Yes, there was a coolant leak on the hose in the picture. This fix only required tightening the hose clamp. At least some projects are easy. Here is a picture of the shift shaft. I am seeing drips of oil from the bottom of the rubber boot and if I pull the boot back, there is a good bit of oil inside. Image Unavailable, Please Login I am a self-taught wrencher, but this is my first go around with an Italian. My plan is to detail all the work with lots of pictures. I know many of you can work on these cars in your sleep, but us new folks need all the help we can get. I have been researching and there are a number of good write-ups on these projects (and future ones), but I want to detail the work from a first timers point of view. My goal is to have write-ups that someone can follow who knows nothing about the car. I have done this successfully on other car forums, so this isnt new to me. I would love to have your input on things to be aware of, tips, or any other useful information as I go along.
My first question is related to putting the car on jack stands. Yes, this seems very basic and I feel strange even asking. I have read a number of threads on the subject, but I want to get some clarification with my car. I cut up one of my hockey pucks to fit in the jack point in front of the rear tire. Unfortunately, someone already bend this one. Image Unavailable, Please Login I jacked up the car a couple of weeks ago to take a look at where I thought the jack stands should go. No comments about the oily underside. I will be cleaning soon enough. In the following pictures, I only set the stands in place, but did not lower the car onto them. The following is the rear of the car. What is the silver plate used for? It looks like my jack stand would fit nicely here, but I doubt that is a good idea. Is a better place the red or yellow circled area or a different spot? Image Unavailable, Please Login On the front, what is the best place to put a jack stand? Do you use a jack stands like these (with a saddle) or the ones with a flat top? In the picture below, I have the jack stand placed where is runs parallel to the frame rail. I dont really like this set-up because it seems like the car could easily slide off. Can I put the stand perpendicular to frame in the red circled area? I would prefer to not have to remove any of the under tray parts. Image Unavailable, Please Login Any thoughts or confirmation would be greatly appreciated.
On the coolant hose leak, that looks like one of the SRI silicon hoses. I have them on mine, and they tend to weep a little during temperature swings (winter storage) and require retightening occasionally. With the jack points, I think the factory jack point is intended to lift the whole side of the car, both front and rear wheels on one side for the changing tires (it's at the CG). I never use those points when working in the garage and lift directly on the chassis rails. For the rear jack stand point, anywhere you have circled works fine. I tend to place mine at the more rearward spot if I can for added stability, but when using my lift I can only get to the spot just in front of the square section and lift there. For the front your points are fine, or you can use the chassis outrigger that starts just to the aft of the lower control arm attachment point. In all of these cases you need a better jack stand with a broad flat top to prevent slipping. I would definitely not use the one you have pictured Hope that helps. Let me qualify my answer by saying that I am not a professional and I am only sharing how I do it when working on my own car (308 GTB). Good luck.
Regarding jacking up the car and jack stand placement, jack the car up just inward of the jack slot, which loads onto the frame, as mentioned by ztarum. You can jack the car high enough to place stands under the car. At the rear, actually the metal plate that you noticed is where the stand should go. It is rearward enough to support the car. At the front, it's a little more tricky. Place the stand inward of that metal flange you circled. If you place the stand at the flange the flange will likely bend as it cannot take the load. But inward of the flange about 1"-3" is where the main frame beam is and that will take the load. This beam is covered by the under tray, which does not need to be removed. Also, the stand should be a little to the rear from where you show it in your photo. Do not put stands forward of the 'A' arm. This is where the front sub frame is and it likely cannot take the load. Actually, in your photo of the front stand, it looks like you're OK. I would just suggest moving it back a few inches. I suggest covering the ends of the 'Y' pieces of your stands with split tennis balls. They will protect the under tray which is pretty soft and it will mush under the load if the ends of the stands are not softened. Or as ztarum mentioned, get stands with wide ends for the front. Congrats on the 328 GTB. It's a great car. BTW, I grew up in Charleston. If I ever get back there I'll give you a ring. -F
Thanks for the feedback so far. In the rear, that silver metal plate won't bend if I set the weight of the car down in the saddle of the jack stand? I have been looking at a pair of these jack stands for the front. I could use another two stands in the garage and these look like they would work well. Nothing like doing your own work to justify spending money on garage tools! Image Unavailable, Please Login
Regarding the metal plate, are you talking about the 'C' section strip of metal that lines the frame rail? If you are, then no, it won't bend. You are loading onto the frame rail and the strip of metal just provides a little protection so you're not loading directly onto the metal of the frame. Even if the ends of the 'Y' load only onto the edges of that strip, it will take the load. I have similar stands with 'Y' ends and if centered left to right on the frame rail, the rail will sit in the 'Y' and will take the load fine. The only thing to watch out for is the engine underside. Do not come in contact with that. If you do load onto that bad things could happen. Just make sure the ends of your stands are clear of that. Regarding the stands with the flats, those look really nice. I would use those in the front and the stands with the 'Y' at the rear. -F
Looks fantastic. Early 328 with concave wheels, hard top(GTB), and black is one of the best looking cars on the planet.
Black metallic is awesome. I believe there was only one black metallic 328 GTB imported to the US, maybe two. Need to check the registry. -F
Chapter One / Jacking up the 308 GT4 Ferrari - FerrariChat.com Good threads and pics here especially this one which I go by Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks for the complements on the Nero Metallic. I'd be curious to know how many NM GTB's were brought to the US. The prior owner thought this might be the only NM/tan interior. Thanks for the feedback on the jacking points. I have a much clearer picture of how to support it with stands. I was also missing the obvious on supporting the front for my future work. I can just put the front tires on my ramps. They are close to the height of the jack stands and you aren't in danger of having the car fall off the jacks. I'll update everyone as I get into the project. My next task is to order parts. I think I need the following for the distributor shaft seal: 1. Distributor shaft seal #132453 2. Distributor flange mounting gasket #150198 3. Distributor cap cork gasket #119409 Am I missing anything for the distributor shaft seal leak? I already have the following parts for the shift shaft seal replacement: 1. Shift shaft seal: 115372-Q from Unobtainium Supply 2. Shift detent tool: 95970630-US from Unobtainium Supply. Hopefully, this tool will make my life easier when putting the car back together. 3. Dalrin shift shaft bushing: 106814-D from Unobtainium Supply. I might as well replace these while I am there. I think I also need the following: 1. Gearbox housing gasket: 147676 2. Gear box drain plug crush washer: 10263460 (I am not 100% sure if this is the correct part number). Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I would like to get the remaining parts on order in the near future, so I can get this project moving. I am trying to avoid getting half way through the project and having to make a second or third order. Unfortunately, I don't think multiple orders can be avoided. Thanks again. Joe
Nero Metallic is indeed very rare. There are a few of us here on the board. Reports state that throughout the run of 3X8s there were a total of 24 cars painted nero metallic. PDG 1985 308 GTS QV Nero metallic/creme
One final question about jacking up the car. I was looking under the car last night thinking about the best way to clean the oil and slime off the motor. Putting the rear of the car on jack stands, removing the rear wheels and hitting the motor with degreaser and a power worked well with an older 911. Any problems with this approach as long as I protect any electrical connections and dont go nuts with the power washer. I have a small electric one, so I am not talking about a big gas powered one. I also noticed what looks like a metal reinforcing plate on the rear/center of the car. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Since the similar looking plates on either side are acceptable places to put jack stands, can I assume that this is an acceptable location to jack the entire rear of the car?
Reinforcing plate on the frame is normal in that location. Nice place to put a jack stand - possibly even meant for exactly that. PM sent, by the way
I've done the wurth degreaser and then simple green and used high pressure water at a u wash it car wash... works great - HOWEVER use it (De greaser ) sparingly around the belts - acc belts and the timing belts. the other part to look out for is the clutch access inspection plate - be sure you have something covering that so you dont get grease and water in there.
I never (or try not to) use degreaser on anything rubber. I have read about the access plate on top of the on top of the bell housing and to make sure it is in place if you introduce water in that area. I haven't had a chance to look at the car, but is this the only hole into the clutch area and is it pretty obvious once I get to poking around?
That could not be right, Patrick, except if you are considering only the United States market; even so, frankly I doubt it. There are already more than 200 Nero Met. 328s alone...(all markets taking into account) Found an add just yesterday for a Nero Met Euro 328 GTB in Japan, 78252, but I know of a few more here. Its not really a rare color: both blacks account for about 11% of all the 328 produced, that is about 825 cars, and they are fairly evenly distributed. And you know of course that I'm prejudiced towards it, because I have a Nero Metallizatto 328 GTS in my garage...but really, this is not one of the rarest colors. As for rarity, on 328s it does not come close of "Oro Chiaro", "Marrone Met", "Blu Medio Met", "Verde Scuro Met" or "Prugna" for instance. Rgds
I haven't forgotten about my thread, but there has been no activity on the car since I last posted. Unfortunately, shortly after last posted, I smelled gas after driving the car. Between vacation and work, the car has been parked ever since I realized it was leaking gas. I have finally gotten some time today to do a little diagnosis work. Upon initial inspection when I found the gas leak, it appears that it is leaking at the banjo bolt connection on the hard line between the fuel pump and the fuel accumulator. It is leaking in the circled area. Image Unavailable, Please Login Seems easy enough to fix and new crush washers should be included in my box of parts that I hope to be delivered today. While researching about fuel leaks and such, I ran across mention of warm start issues with faulty accumulators or check valves. Ding ding ding......my car seems to stumble to life when warm and sometimes needs a little press on the accelerator to get it to fire. I figured since I was going to have all the parts off to repair the leak, I might as well determine if I could figure out if any of these parts are faulty. Today, I had a little time to look at the fuel accumulator. I have read that if there is fuel in the vent line, then the diaphragm is bad. From what I understand, if the diaphragm is leaking, there is a drop in fuel pressure when the car cools down. The resulting drop in pressure results in the car lingering to start. So, I undid the hose clamp on the vent line as seen below. The socket is on the hose clamp. Image Unavailable, Please Login And as soon as I pulled the vent line off, gas poured out of the nipple in the picture. Image Unavailable, Please Login Looks like I may have found the source of the warm start issue. I figured I would replace the check valve while I was at it since it can be had for abut $20. From the cross reference thread, it appears that part number E3030-27424 from http://www.importeccatalog.com has the part for under $20. Also from the cross reference thread, it appears that Bosch part number 0 438 170 004 is the fuel accumulator. It looks like the accumulator is available from a number of sources for about $100. Anything I should be aware of related to the removal of the fuel pump/accumulator. It appears that I need to disconnect the fuel lines on either side, undo the bolts on the bracket and remove the unit as one. I do have hose pliers, so I should be able to pinch the fuel line from the fuel tanks so I don't have to drain them. The fuel line has been replaced recently, so it is pliable. Looks like I will be ordering some parts this weekend and hopefully, I can dig into some of the oil leaks now that I have parts.
I did this job on my 87 a few months back. I was too nervous to do it with fuel in the tanks. I'd highly recommend putting the whole bracket in a vice and carefully removing that banjo fitting between the two. Also, you might as well do the fuel pump and fuel filter too since you'll already have it out. Mark all the fittings so you can place them back the same way you removed them, this will make reassembly easier. Craig
I have gotten a little behind with this thread and have finally had some free time to detail the work that has been going on. I figured I would start with the distributor seal on the 5-8 bank. I read a number of how-tos and this seemed like a good first project on this car. There is already a detailed write-up here http://ferrari.cdyn.com/carl_rose_docs/Ferrari%20328%20Distributor%20Shaft%20Seal%20Replacement.pdf, but I thought I would also do my own. These are the parts that you will need to complete this project: 1. Distributor shaft seal #132453 2. Distributor flange mounting gasket #150198 3. Distributor cap cork gasket #119409 Of course, the seal that needs replacing on my car is the one that is harder to access, but that seems typical of car work. You will start by removing the rubber cover over the distributor. You can grab the edge of it with your fingers and pull it off in the direction of the arrows. Once free, you will want to slide the rubber cap down the wires so it is out of the way. Image Unavailable, Please Login I found that unplugging the coil wire allowed me to slide the cap further out of the way. Sorry for the bad picture, but the coil wire and coil are circled. Image Unavailable, Please Login Once removed, you will see the 3 bolts that hold the distributor cap in place. The visible ones are the easy ones to remove. I used a ¼ socket and they came right out. These screws do not completely come out of the cap, so there is no danger of dropping them in the engine bay. Image Unavailable, Please Login The third screw is 120 degrees around the cap from either of the visible screws. I have read that you can loosen the screw with a small open ended wrench. I tried for a long time and never was able to get a wrench on it. The bolt/screw does have a slot in it, so you can get a screw driver on it. I think this is how I ultimately got it loose, but there is an easier way. It later hit me that I could have used my ¼ socket with a short extension. This is the way I reinstalled the screw and it took all of a few minutes to do. I wont admit how long it took me to get the screw off. You will have to shift the spark plug wires a little to get the socket in place. I also found that the easiest access to this bolt was with one arm between the engine cover shock and the engine cover (on the front side). Once the cap is loose, pull it out of the way and you will have revealed the rotor. You next be removing the three small bolts (circled) that hold it in place. You wont be able to use a socket, so small open ended wrenches work best. There are washers under each bolt, so make sure you dont drop one. There is supposed to be a cork gasket under the cap, but it was missing on my car. Image Unavailable, Please Login Two tips. I placed a small towel under where I was working so if I did drop a small part, it wouldnt fall into the depths of the engine never to be found again. Second-I placed a mark on the distributor and the rotor so I would know the correct orientation when reinstalling. Of course pictures also work well. You can see the marks by the arrow in the above picture.
Once the rotor is removed, you will remove the two nuts and one bolt holding the plate containing the seal. There are also washers under the bolt/washers, so dont drop them. A socket works well to get them off. Image Unavailable, Please Login Once the cover is loose, it will slide off. You may have to work with it. Mine had some sealer on it and it took some fiddling to get it off. Image Unavailable, Please Login Half of my gasket stayed on the car and half came off on the cap. Image Unavailable, Please Login Next up is to press the seal out of the cap. I used a socket that was approximately the size of the seal and a pipe fitting (larger than the seal) and squeezed it with a vice. The seal came out easily. Image Unavailable, Please Login
