Fispa Mechanical Fuel Pump | FerrariChat

Fispa Mechanical Fuel Pump

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by ehs308, Jul 8, 2014.

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  1. ehs308

    ehs308 Rookie

    Mar 29, 2011
    49
    I'm in the process of installing my recently rebuilt Fispa mechanical fuel pump on a 275 GTB/2 and was wondering if anyone might provide some guidance as to how to properly achieve the correct spacing of the pump from the timing chest using the phenolic spacer and gaskets? Prior to rebuild, the pump was spaced with the phenolic spacer and one gasket totaling about 10mm in thickness. I have the small 3 screw front cover removed and have rotated the crank by hand to observe the pump lever's movement but I'm not quite sure how much travel is sufficient or exactly what I should be looking for. I've read that to much spacing and the pump won't work properly and to little spacing could cause internal damage to the pump. Any help as to what I should be looking for would be very much appreciated.

    Ed
     
  2. TTR

    TTR F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    5,902
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    For possibly best advise on anything regarding 275 GTB, search member list and PM fchat member: DWR46
    Timo
     
  3. ehs308

    ehs308 Rookie

    Mar 29, 2011
    49
    Thanks much for your help Timo. I sent a PM to DWR46 as you suggested.

    Ed
     
  4. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
    3,080
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    John Vardanian
    Ed, it's about getting the stroke of the pump's plunger just right. Too much stroke can bend the flat tabs, not enough would starve the carbs. I would mount the pump in a vise and measure the travel of the push pad at optimum stroke. Then measure the travel of the push rod at the side of the block, then subtract from it the thickness of the block. That should be a good way to get in the right ballpark. Finer adjustments can be done by shaving the block or adding gaskets.

    john

    PS. It would be better if issues like this were discussed on the forum so we could all learn, as opposed to PM's.
     
  5. ehs308

    ehs308 Rookie

    Mar 29, 2011
    49
    Many thanks for your very helpful response John. I concur with you regarding PM's and making this information available to everyone. As such, what follows is the also very helpful response I received from DWR46.



    Ed: Not an easy question to answer, but here goes-

    1. If you look at the parts catalog, there are NO gaskets used with the phenolic spacer. They rely on an O-ring to seal the pushrod. I would recommend that you put a light smear of Locktite 518 on both sides of the spacer to make sure you have no leaks. But only do it after you have verified the correct pressure.

    2. How many parts were replaced in the pump? The pivot arms, pivot shaft, what was worn, etc? All this will determine how much pressure the pump produces.

    3. I would start by taking .015" off the phenolic spacer to compensate for general wear.

    4. Mount the pump, get the car running, shut it off. That way you know the pump is pumping fuel and the carbs are full.

    5. Remove the line from the pump to the glass bowl filter at the filter end (it may work better for you to remove the pump end). You can then run the car for a short time on the fuel still in the carb bowls.

    6. Hook up a fuel pressure gauge and run the motor briefly to see what pressure the pump is putting out. Look for 3.5-5.0 psi. Up to 6.0 is OK. You will have to do some fiddling with lines, hoses, fittings, etc to make this all work.

    7. You have to NOT include the glass bowl filter in the test because it has a pressure regulator built into it and it will lower the pressure to about 3.0-3.5 psi.

    8. If your pressure is low (I doubt it will be high), then remove the pump and take off more material from the phenolic block in .015" segments till the pressure comes up to spec. Generally no more than about .030-.040" will get good pressure.

    9.When you have the pressure you need, mount the pump with the Locktite 518.

    Not a simple task and time consuming, but you will get a good pump when you are done.

    Dyke
     
  6. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
    3,080
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    John Vardanian
    Ed, Dykes Note 7 I might have overlooked, so thanks for sharing.

    It would be good to hear back from you, how it went. Good luck.

    john
     
  7. MiuraP400

    MiuraP400 Formula Junior

    Feb 3, 2008
    951
    Arizona
    Full Name:
    Jim
    This is my approach, first when rebuilding the pump I make sure all the pivot points are in good shape so their is no excessive play. Then I turn the engine over and measure the minimum and maximum protrusion of the pushers. Next I measure the point where all the slop is taken up on the pump (mounting face to pushrod contact point). I then make the same measurement with the fuel pump pushrod contact point fully compressed. Once I have all these data points I calculate the thickness of the spacer needed to put the fuel pump in the middle of its range, making sure the pump does not bottom out or it is just exercising the slop in the pump.

    Keep your eyes open when rebuilding these pumps. You can find some strange things, the last pump I did I found the diaphragm was hitting one of the check valves causing it to unseat when the diaphragm was at full stroke.

    Cheers Jim
     
  8. ehs308

    ehs308 Rookie

    Mar 29, 2011
    49
    Thanks Jim for the very beneficial information. I will incorporate your approach into this process as well. Will be locally sourcing a banjo fitting with a barbed end today which will allow me to utilize my fuel pressure gauge to measure the pressure coming from the pump as suggested by DWR46 in steps #6 and #7. Will provide details when everything is up and running.
     
  9. John B

    John B Formula 3

    May 27, 2003
    1,564
    NJ
    #9 John B, Jul 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I rebuilt the FISPA mechanical fuel pump on my 330 GTC. It began stalling when hot without the auxillary electric fuel pump on. It would then run again on the mechanical alone when cool. I think when it got hot the phenolic spacer expanded slightly shortening the arms stroke leading to insufficient pressure and volume for the engine to run. I bought a rebuild kit from T-Rutlands and dug up the the following which I found to be very helpful and am posting for posterity. The tolerances have to be just right, make sure the pivot points are not worn. My car didn't have a gasket between the spacer and the block, the kit didn't have one either, so I re-installed the pump without one. The car now runs great on the mechanical pump alone, I only use the auxiliary on startup and if I anticipate some extended full throttle running.

    Hope this helps, good luck!
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  10. ehs308

    ehs308 Rookie

    Mar 29, 2011
    49
    Thanks very much John B for your input as well as the pump diagram and rebuild instructions. I've been advised of an additional method to check for the correct initial amount of pump stroke and I'm wondering if anyone else utilized this as well when they installed their pump? With the pump mounted to the engine(phenolic spacer in place) and the 3 screw front cover and internal tension spring removed, you turn the crank by hand and observe the movement of the pivot lever in the pump (the end which the spring slides over) and simultaneously check for play (you can wiggle it up and down just a bit) as you rotate the crank. When the pin/shaft on the engine side is fully retracted in the engine, I can move the pump pivot lever up and down with ease. As I turn the crank and the pin/shaft from the engine side extends itself and contacts the lever,the lever begins to travel through its' stroke ending when the pin/shaft on the engine side is fully extended. At that point, the pivot lever (spring side) in the pump is very taught and can no longer be wiggled. I've been advised that there should be some play in the pivot lever at this point and that if not, gasket(s) should be added between the phenolic block and the pump body until this is achieved. The reason given was that without this slight play, there would be to much pressure being applied to the pump internals and one would risk damaging the pump. Obviously this is not a final adjustment but just a guide to prevent damage to the pump. Any input would be much appreciated.

    Ed
     
  11. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
    Honorary

    Jun 19, 2012
    2,043
    ehs308: When the pushrod is fully extended, and the pivot lever is "loaded", it is pulling against the main diaphragm spring and has a lot of tension on it. I would not expect you to be able to easily "wiggle" the pivot lever at this point. Maybe you can use a screwdriver to move it further to prove the diaphragm is not over extended, but I would not expect any "play".
     
  12. ehs308

    ehs308 Rookie

    Mar 29, 2011
    49
    Many thanks for the clarification DWR46. My thinking was similar in that if I could move/wiggle the pivot lever when the pushrod was fully extended, the pump rocker arm probably wasn't moving enough to adequately extend the diaphragm and the result would be less than optimum fuel pressure.
     
  13. ehs308

    ehs308 Rookie

    Mar 29, 2011
    49
    Fuel pump installed and putting out 6 p.s.i. On the high end of Dyke's recommended range, but after all the fiddling to get it properly spaced, I'm going to go with it. Ended up taking .040" off the phenolic spacer in 3 phases removing .015" twice and then .010" in my last pass. After removing .030" from the spacer, I was only getting a touch over 3 p.s.i. Was very surprised to see how much the fuel pressure increased when I removed the last .010". As Dyke noted, lots of fiddling and plan on taking some time to do this properly. Knowing a carpenter with the equipment to accurately cut the spacer down helped immensely. A visit to the local hydraulics shop where they made me a trick fitting that threaded into the outlet of the fuel pump and had a barbed end to slip the fuel pressure gauge hose over. Thanks to everyone for their help.
     
  14. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
    3,080
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    John Vardanian
    Hi Ed, it sounds great. I would now remove the pump and see if the two flat tabs (Part #2 in the above diagram) are still streigh. If they are you have achieved Nirvana, if they are a little bent you have slightly overshot Nirvana.

    john
     
  15. ehs308

    ehs308 Rookie

    Mar 29, 2011
    49
    Thanks again for your advice John. Although I didn't run the pump very long when checking the fuel pressure, I did remove the front cover from the pump when I finished my test, which gave me a great view of the two flat tabs. Both appear straight and true. Plan to check them again after I've run the engine for a longer period of time.

    Ed
     

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