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Flat 12 magazine

Discussion in '308/328' started by parkerfe, Jan 11, 2005.

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  1. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
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    Franklin E. Parker
    #1 parkerfe, Jan 11, 2005
    I received the first issue of Flat 12 magazine yesterday. From what it claims future issues will cover, it looks to be a wealth of information on Ferrari's various flat 12 models from the 365GT4/BB to the 512M. It claims to have the inside scoop on these cars. In fact, it listed some info that I had not heard before. It rates the 365 Boxer as only having 344hp rather than the factory claimed 380hp with both the BB512 and BB512i having 340hp each. It also list the BB512i as the second lightest of all Ferrari flat 12s with only the 365GT4/BB being lighter. I had always though that the BB512 was lighter than the BB512i, but according to them the BB512i is about 200 pounds lighter than the BB512. If you have a Ferrari flat 12, I suggest you order you a subscribition from www.Cavallino.com .
     
  2. Ferrari 328 Euro

    Ferrari 328 Euro Formula Junior

    Jul 19, 2004
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    Brandon
    #2 Ferrari 328 Euro, Jan 11, 2005
    Cavallino also publishes a similar newsletter called OTTO, which is for the 8-cylinder 3x8 cars. Got my first issue last week. Looks good as well.
     
  3. Steve B

    Steve B Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
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    Steven L. Biagini
    #3 Steve B, Jan 12, 2005
    I have seen so many inconsistencies reported in magazines, that I think it is important that every magazine clearly identifies its sources for the claims made by it.

    I cannot believe that the 512BBi weighs 200 lbs. less than a 512BB. What is the basis for their claim? Did they weigh comparable cars (e.g., complete Euro spec.)? The only significant difference between the two cars is fuel injection vs. carburetion and there is no way that the fuel injection components weigh 200 lbs. less than the carburetor set-up.

    As to horsepower figures, it is also very important to distinguish between measurement standards (e.g., DIN vs. SAE net). I have the owner's manual for a 512BB and it lists the horsepower peak at 360 DIN. I have previously owned a 512BBi and the owner's manual listed peak horsepower at 340 but I can't remember whether this was DIN or SAE net. As to the 365 BB, the information in Flat Twelve is accurate, but this is not news. Mel Nichols book, "Ferrari Berlinetta Boxer" from 1980 stated that the 380 hp figure was from a pre-production prototype and Ferrari used this figure in its press release kit. However, the owner's manual for the 365 BB clearly states that peak horsepower is 344 SAE net.
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 Steve Magnusson, Jan 12, 2005
    Thank goodness they called it "Flat 12" and not "Boxer 12" ;)
     
  5. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    #5 parkerfe, Jan 12, 2005
    Flat 12 claims their info on the various Boxer models is correct and that the info either came from the factory or they tested, measured and/or weighed them their self. Since they are the same credible folks who publish Cavallino, I assume they know what they're doing. And, their are other differences than just the carbs vs. FI between the BB512 and BB512i that could affect the weight. Off the top of my head there are differences in, the rear engine louvers, front grill, various interior pieces, tool kit, wheels, tires...and more that I can't recall right now. I guess all of those differences add up to 200 pounds or so ?
     
  6. Steve B

    Steve B Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
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    Steven L. Biagini
    #6 Steve B, Jan 12, 2005
    Frank,

    The 200 lb. claim just sounds ridiculous. The differences between the 512BB and BBi (other than fuel delivery) are inconsequential in terms of weight. Claiming to have "inside sources" is not enough. As I see it, any person or magazine that makes an outrageous claim has the burden to back it up with proof. While Cavallino is a fine magazine, they can make mistakes. By the way, out of curiosity, I pulled out my "Motor and Thoroughbred & Classic Cars" Ferrari articles book (covering 1976 - 1984) and looked at Motor magazine's May 1982 test of a 512BBi. The weight is listed at 3681 lbs and the horsepower at 340 DIN.

    Steve
     
  7. atheyg

    atheyg Guest

    #7 atheyg, Jan 12, 2005
    Flat 12 has it backwards concerning the weight, the BB weighs about 200lbs less than the BBi, the FI intake manifolds weigh about the same as the 12 Webers, this does not include the 2 separate fuel distributors which are heavy and other items such as 2 fuel pressure regulators etc., BBis also have an additonal alternator -25lbs and started adding items such as soleniods for the glove box and factory stereos, they definately weigh more, this makes the magazine lose serious credibility IMO.
     
  8. Murph

    Murph Formula 3

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    #8 Murph, Jan 12, 2005
    My issue had it right...of course I'm dyslexic.
    Seriously, this issue seemed to be more of a promo for the upcoming newsletter than an actual issue, not a lot of content, but if all the sidebar info they promised comes true it should be a good read.
    They ask for owner questions and feedback so fire away.
    Noticed that FerrariChat has an ad in the pub.
     
  9. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    Franklin E. Parker
    #9 parkerfe, Jan 13, 2005
    atheyg, so how many Boxers have you weighed? In any event, I certainly put more confidence in what Flat 12 by Cavallino publishes than what other non-Ferrari magazines may publish. Although I do acknowlege that they make mistakes too.
     
  10. atheyg

    atheyg Guest

    #10 atheyg, Jan 13, 2005
    Frank, why would you take their word as gospel?
    They clearly made a big mistake, it could have been a printing or editor issue but its a mistake none the less.

    Someone should send them an email on this issue.

    To answer your question, none, but I have read everything I could get my hands on concerning Boxers and most notibly Mel Nichols book on the Boxer, he had direct access to the factory including all the engineers that designed the car along with Mr. Ferrari himself, this book has all the weights and inside information on the Boxer if you want all the details and inside info I suggest you read it.

    How would it be possible the BBi weighs less than the BB unless they somehow drilled large holes in the frame? When Russ removed his FI system from his Mondial and converted it to carbs he weighed the system and it was over 150lbs easy and the BBi has 2 separate systems.
     
  11. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    #11 judge4re, Jan 13, 2005
    Am I the only one that has a hard time justifying the cost of the subscription for either of these new magazines?
     
  12. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Bubba
    #12 BigTex, Jan 14, 2005
    Well I'M tapped out, Judge, but I'm blaming it on Christmas and the FFQC! LOL!

    We dropped some coin at the Orange Show Gala too, but Buddy Guy only comes around........uh, he NEVER comes around, come to think of it!

    We'll see.......will these titles be at the dealers, like Cavallino?
     
  13. Murph

    Murph Formula 3

    Apr 26, 2004
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    #13 Murph, Jan 17, 2005
    I think who ever put the article together transposed the numbers.
    Even Cavalino Magazine itself has the BBi as the heaviest.
    According to Cavalino #22 1984 the 365GT4BB weighs 2724lbs the 512BB 3084lbs and the 512BBi 3305ilbs.
    Looks like they might need a proofreader.
     

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