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Flexible Front Wing

Discussion in 'F1' started by thirteendog, Aug 2, 2010.

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  1. thirteendog

    thirteendog Formula 3

    Mar 6, 2008
    1,587
    Nashville, TN
    I can't believe we haven't already had a thread on this. What do y'all think about it. Is it "against the rules", it is after all flexing below 3 inches. This is apparent when watching the cars slightly drag their wings.
     
  2. patricko

    patricko Formula Junior

    Aug 30, 2005
    532
    Huntington Beach, CA
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    Patrick O'Neill
    It is illegal.

    The FIA is changing the test for the next race. The Ferrari and Red Bull wings have run their last race.

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85817

    "At the moment the endplates on the front wing are allowed to flex by a maximum of 10mm when a load of 50 kilogrammes (500 Newtons) is applied to them.

    The FIA has told teams now that it reserves the right to increase that test up to 100 kilogrammes - and it will only allow a linear increase of deflection up to 20mm.

    The linear increase is designed to ensure that teams are not using clever material design to ensure that their cars pass the deflection test to stay within the regulations but then flex much more at higher loads.

    It is also understood that the FIA is to clamp down on teams using clever fixings and joints on the underfloor of the car – amid suspicions that this is one area that teams could also be exploiting the regulations.

    Mercedes GP team principal Ross Brawn, who had sought clarification from the FIA about the flexible wing regulations, confirmed on Sunday night that he expected the tests to change for Spa."
     
  3. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    May 27, 2003
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    Well we all know that Ferrari wouldn't do something against the rules. :D
     
  4. patricko

    patricko Formula Junior

    Aug 30, 2005
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    Patrick O'Neill
    It was not against the rules but it is now :)
     
  5. GTSguy

    GTSguy Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2004
    615
    Northern California
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    Jon
    This could give Ferrari a chance to narrow the gap with Red Bull. Ferrari and Red Bull are the only teams that have already gone down this hole. The two teams should have a leg up on the others. Hopefully Ferrari can make up for the growing gap to Red Bull.
     
  6. ms.gto

    ms.gto Formula Junior

    May 17, 2008
    651
    Mornington Peninsula
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    andrew tregurtha
    Exactly, On the super slo-mo from Sundays race, most of the movement appeared to come from tyre sidewall flex. The high speed camera was on a bumpy corner rather than on the straight at high speed..
     
  7. JSBMD

    JSBMD Formula Junior

    Mar 17, 2007
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    The OC
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    John
    I'm surprised that the test uses only 50 or 100kg. Imagine the actual aerodynamic loads on wings at speed...

    John
     
  8. patricko

    patricko Formula Junior

    Aug 30, 2005
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    Patrick O'Neill
    That load is only on one endplate so it would be double for both sides.
     
  9. dusk

    dusk Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2005
    427
    Brisbane
    Full Name:
    Pete
    The wing passed all the tests and is not illegal, just a brilliant mind using engineering to take full advantage within the existing rule.
     
  10. patricko

    patricko Formula Junior

    Aug 30, 2005
    532
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    Patrick O'Neill
    Absolutely and then another team copied his idea...Newey is a genius.

    Colin Chapman was always coming up with amazing cars. The T79 ground effects car and the T88 twin chassis are a couple that instantly come to mind and what did the FIA do? They banned them :(
     
  11. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
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    DJ
    bah i dont want to see this banned because i think it is the main reason for the F10s form lately
     
  12. Chicko

    Chicko Formula 3

    Here is an interesting article on the subject..

    check out the gif image, which shows the movement from the race in china.

    http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/aero-elasticity-%E2%80%93-red-bulls-front-wing/

    Redbull have been using highly flexible wings since early in the season, and now that Ferrari seem to have increased there performance by adopting the same ideas, the FIA are changing the testing procedure.

    The team that has the most to gain from this, if Redbull's and Ferrari's wings fail the new test and have to fit new ones is Mclaren, as they have been very slow to react to the flexible wing advances, and have been the leaders in lobbying the FIA.
     
  13. GTSguy

    GTSguy Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2004
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    Jon
    There's no 'ban'. The specs have just been tightened.... Now Ferrari needs to find the next smart - rule compliant - advantage before Newey and Red Bull!
     
  14. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
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    well i mean the rules are tightened so now they will be illegal haha effectively banning them
     
  15. beast

    beast F1 World Champ

    May 31, 2003
    11,479
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    Rob Guess
    Ferrari and RedBull have 4 weeks to figure out the layup of a wing that flexes under aero loads but will still handle the 100Kg/20mm weight/flex test that will be in place at Spa.

    The way I look at it is if the wing flexs under load but still passed the FIA inspection process then it is legal under the rules even if it operated in the grey areas.
     
  16. patricko

    patricko Formula Junior

    Aug 30, 2005
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    Patrick O'Neill
    That was a great read, thanks for sharing.
     
  17. patricko

    patricko Formula Junior

    Aug 30, 2005
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    Patrick O'Neill
    Yes I agree. I don't think anyone is saying that Red Bull or Ferrari will face any penalties for using it in previous races.
     
  18. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2008
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    Another money saving move by the FIA. Teams working within the regs find a way of improving their cars so the regs are changed forcing a redesign.
    What a joke.
     
  19. SFTifoso

    SFTifoso Rookie

    Apr 10, 2010
    38
    #19 SFTifoso, Aug 2, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2010
    It's all relative though. Because RB's wing flexes about 2x more than Ferrari's, we will catch up to them if both teams have a rigid wing. IOW RB will lose out more than us. However, Mclaren will catch up to us, and with two fast tracks coming up, they might give us trouble. Hopefully Ferrari can refine their F-duct, and negate any advantage Mclaren has.
     
  20. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
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    DJ
    Source?
     
  21. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    106,804
    Vegas baby
    For those who say the FIA always sides with Ferrari, when Ferrari asked for clarification for Brawn's defuser, Ferrari lost.

    When Brawn asked about Ferrari's flexible front wing (even though Whiting said it passed), Brawn won.

    Brawn 2, Ferrari 0.
     
  22. frefan

    frefan F1 Veteran

    Apr 21, 2004
    7,370
    Just run spec cars already and kill the sport
     
  23. sidewaz

    sidewaz Rookie

    Jul 29, 2010
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    Robin Hawley
    The onboard camera above the driver's head showed an interesting view of the flex increasing as the cars gained speed. You could see the Red Bull wing drop steadily as the car reached top speed and then raise back up in the braking zone. The Ferraris did also but about half as much. This was easiest to see in the long onboard views during qualifying. None of the announcers mentioned it and I was suprised Steve M. didn't pick it up. This view negated the tire flex and bouncing that made drive by slo-mo hard to evaluate.

    Robin
     
  24. patricko

    patricko Formula Junior

    Aug 30, 2005
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    Patrick O'Neill
    #24 patricko, Aug 2, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here are some pictures from the link above. That article has a great technical analysis of what is going on with the RBR wing.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  25. Drive550PFB

    Drive550PFB Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Once upon a time, if you built a better mousetrap, the world would beat a path to your door. Now, the FIA Police show up and take the cheese. The more things change . . .
     

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