Flu Shots

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by Piper, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. ATTENTION: http/https Bug Fix! Most of us have been experiencing problems staying logged in as we navigate the site. That is simply the result of links varying between http and https, which each require different logons. To resolve we are going to force https starting sometime Wednesday. However, you may have problems accessing FerrariChat until after you log out, clear cookies/browser cache, and log back on. Keep in mind my email is admin@ferrarichat.com if you do have access problems after Wednesday. Thanks!
  1. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 6, 2010
    20,025
    Northern Virginia
    Full Name:
    Bob
    I got my flu shot this year. I did it for two reasons. First, if effective, I'm willing to sacrafice myself to not bring it home to the family. Second, I'm in a very important business development cycle and can't afford to be down for two weeks, no way no how. I think the debate over the relative worth of vaccines is really important. It's hard to know who to believe sometimes so hearing the open debate is interesting for me. So here's the latest propaganda from the anti vaccine crowd aimed at the flu shot. Wife sent it to me today after I told I had the shot last Fall.

    You Won't Believe the Crap That's in Your Flu Shot!

    Flu Shots Are Made From WHAT? - Video - iHealthTube.com

    You won't believe how flu shots are produced. Even worse is how some new production methods are ready to come to a syringe near you. Dr. Sherry Tenpenny describes how the shots are made, and what's actually going into your body.

    Avoid the Shot - Here's Why You Get the Flu

    Avoid The Shot, Here's Why You Get the Flu - Video - iHealthTube.com

    Is there more to catching the flu than simply acquiring a "bug"? Journalist Liam Scheff offers an explanation that may have you thinking twice about the annual flu shot. Find out what he says can be a major player in getting colds and the flu and what you can do about it.

    Flu Shots Simply a Hoax

    Flu Shots Simply a Hoax - Video - iHealthTube.com

    Do you wrestle with whether or not to get a flu shot each year? They went from being suggested to a few select groups of people to almost every population group being "recommended" to get a flu shot. Dr. Michael Murray gives a short and to-the-point answer on whether or not he thinks they are needed and beneficial.
     
  2. Vinny Bourne

    Vinny Bourne Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2011
    872
    I watched this vid ^^ and it was just BS. I believe in nutrition and a natural way of staying or getting healthy, but too many poeple take it to the far extreme like that guy. How does that guy explain the 1918 Flu pandemic that killed millions and makes for some incredible reading. That was long before baskin robbins or really any processed foods existed as we know them.

    The 1918 Influenza Pandemic


    I have not had a flu shot in my life that I know of, I have had the flu a few times, I try to use common sense, avoiding sick appearing people by heading the other way FAST. And taking all other well known steps, don't touch your face while out, wipe shopping carts, ........... The pushers of the shot readily admit it was only like 55% effective last year.

    As usual there is a happy medium between believing in so-called medicine and far out quackery.
     
  3. S Brake

    S Brake F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 3, 2006
    16,687
    Utah
    Full Name:
    Dave
    I got the flu shot, and intend on doing so each flu season. A friend's mom just died of H1N1 two days ago and a neighbor has been in the ICU for weeks because of it as well. She needed a tracheotomy because her trachea kept collapsing whenever they tried to extubate her. Most of the anit-vaccine stuff out there is just pseudo-science BS. A vaccine will introduce part of an antigen or a killed antigen into your body then your body goes to work making its own antibodies. Vaccines work.
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1mwYwjel-Q]Vaccines - YouTube[/ame]
     
  4. JCR

    JCR F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Oh, don't be too hard on Piper. We all know by now that his posts are a contrary indicator on this subforum. Everything he posts is wrong. :D LOL!!!

    Hey Pipester, Sherry Tenpenny is a QUACK

    Don?t listen to these ?medical voices,? or: How did I miss this loony antivaccine site before? ? Respectful Insolence

    Damned lies and idiots | White Coat Underground

    Christiane Northrup: more bad medicine « Science-Based Medicine

    I've gotten so many vaccinations over the years that my yellow PHS-731 from the military was full and had to get another which is now a CDC 731.
     
  5. S Brake

    S Brake F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 3, 2006
    16,687
    Utah
    Full Name:
    Dave
    http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/growing-up-unvaccinated/

    "I am the 70s child of a health nut. I wasn’t vaccinated. I was brought up on an incredibly healthy diet: no sugar til I was one, breastfed for over a year, organic homegrown vegetables, raw milk, no MSG, no additives, no aspartame. My mother used homeopathy, aromatherapy, osteopathy, we took daily supplements of vitamin C, echinacea, cod liver oil. I had an outdoor lifestyle; I grew up next to a farm, walked everywhere, did sports and danced twice a week, drank plenty of water. I wasn’t even allowed pop; even my fresh juice was watered down to protect my teeth, and I would’ve killed for white, shop-bought bread in my lunch box once in a while and biscuits instead of fruit like all the other kids. We only ate (organic local) meat maybe once or twice a week and my mother and father cooked everything from scratch – I have yet to taste a Findus crispy pancake and oven chips were reserved for those nights when mum and dad had friends over and we got a “treat.”

    As healthy as my lifestyle seemed, I contracted measles, mumps, rubella, a type of viral meningitis, scarlatina, whooping cough, yearly tonsillitis, and chickenpox, some of which are vaccine preventable. In my twenties I got precancerous HPV and spent 6 months of my life wondering how I was going to tell my two children under the age of 7 that mummy might have cancer before it was safely removed.

    So having the “natural immunity sterilised out of us” just doesn’t cut it for me. How could I, with my idyllic childhood and my amazing health food, get so freaking ill all the time? My mother was the biggest health freak around–she would put most of my current “crunchy” friends to shame. She didn’t drink, she didn’t smoke, she didn’t do drugs and we certainly weren’t allowed to watch whatever we wanted on telly or wear plastic shoes or any of that stuff. She LIVED alternative health. And you know what? I’m glad she gave us the great diet that we had, I’m glad that she cared about us in that way.

    But it just didn’t stop me getting childhood illnesses.

    My two vaccinated children, on the other hand, have rarely been ill, have had antibiotics maybe twice in their lives, if that (not like me who got so many illnesses which needed treatment with antibiotics that I developed a resistance to them, which led me to be hospitalized with penicillin-resistant quinsy at 21–you know that old fashioned disease that killed Queen Elizabeth I and which was almost wiped out through use of antibiotics).

    My kids have had no childhood illnesses other than chickenpox, which they both contracted while still breastfeeding. They too grew up on a healthy diet, homegrown organics etc. Not to the same extent as I did, though, as I was not quite as strict as my mother, but they are both healthier than I have ever been.

    I find myself wondering about the claim that complications from childhood illnesses are extremely rare but that “vaccine injuries” are rampant. If this is the case, I struggle to understand why I know far more people who have experienced complications from preventable childhood illnesses than I have EVER met with complications from vaccines. I have friends who became deaf from measles. I have a partially sighted friend who contracted rubella in the womb. My ex got pneumonia from chickenpox. A friend’s brother died from meningitis.

    Anecdotal evidence is nothing to base decisions on. But when facts and evidence-based science aren’t good enough to sway someone’s opinion, then this is where I come from. After all, anecdotes are the anti-vaccine supporter’s way. Well, this is my personal experience. And my personal experience prompts me to vaccinate my children and myself. I got the flu vaccine recently, and I am getting the whooping cough booster to protect my unborn baby. My natural immunity from having whooping cough at age 5 will not protect him once he’s born.

    I understand, to a point, where the anti-vaccine parents are coming from. Back in the 90s when I was a concerned, 19-year-old mother, frightened by the world I was bringing my child into, I was studying homeopathy, herbalism and aromatherapy; I believed in angels, witchcraft, clairvoyants, crop circles, aliens at Nazca, giant ginger mariners spreading their knowledge to the Aztecs, the Incas and the Egyptians and that I was somehow personally blessed by the Holy Spirit with healing abilities. I was having my aura read at a hefty price and filtering the fluoride out of my water. I was choosing to have past life regressions instead of taking anti-depressants. I was taking my daily advice from tarot cards. I grew all my own veg and made my own herbal remedies. I was so freaking crunchy that I literally crumbled. It was only when I took control of those paranoid thoughts and fears about the world around me and became an objective critical thinker that I got well. It was when I stopped taking sugar pills for everything and started seeing medical professionals that I began to thrive physically and mentally.

    If you think your child’s immune system is strong enough to fight off vaccine-preventable diseases, then it’s strong enough to fight off the tiny amounts of dead or weakened pathogens present in any of the vaccines. But not everyone around you is that strong, not everyone has a choice, not everyone can fight those illnesses, and not everyone can be vaccinated. If you have a healthy child, then your healthy child can cope with vaccines and can care about those unhealthy children who can’t. Teach your child compassion, and teach your child a sense of responsibility for those around them. Don’t teach your child to be self serving and scared of the world in which it lives and the people around him/her. And teach them to LOVE people with ASD or any other disability for that matter, not to label them as damaged.

    And lastly but most importantly for me – knowingly exposing your child to childhood illnesses is cruel; even without complications these diseases aren’t exactly pleasant. I don’t know about you, but I don’t enjoy watching children suffer even with a cold or a hurt knee. If you’ve never had these illnesses you don’t know how awful they are–I do. Pain, discomfort, the inability to breathe or to eat or to swallow, fever and nightmares, itching all over your body so much that you can’t stand lying on bed sheets, losing so much weight you can’t walk properly, diarrhea that leaves you lying prostrate on the bathroom floor, the unpaid time off work for parents (and if you’re self employed that means NO INCOME), the quarantine, missing school, missing parties, the worry, the sleepless nights, the sweat, the tears and the blood, the midnight visits to A and E, sitting in a doctor’s waiting room on your own because no one will sit near you because they’re rightfully scared of those spots all over your kids face.

    Those of you who have avoided childhood illnesses without vaccines are lucky. You couldn’t do it without us pro-vaxxers. Once the vaccination rates begin dropping, the less herd immunity will be able to protect your children. The more people you convert to your anti-vax stance, the quicker that luck will run out."

    Amy Parker is a 37 year old mother of two teenagers, with a new arrival on the way. She was brought up in the idyllic countryside of the Lake District, England by health conscious parents–an artist and a ballet teacher. She currently lives on the Fylde coast where she teaches piano and singing. Amy runs arts and crafts workshops for children and adults.
     
  6. forgeahead

    forgeahead F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Sep 16, 2008
    4,328
    Rocky Mount, NC
    Full Name:
    Ray
    I'm required to get it for work. I suppose I coil do make up some malarkey about being allergic to it. I had the flu last year (got the shot then) and I was so miserable that I would do just about anything to avoid it. Heck, I eat Slim Jims and I could only imagine what's in those bad boy sticks!
     
  7. Tired of seeing this ad? Upgrade now
  8. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 6, 2010
    20,025
    Northern Virginia
    Full Name:
    Bob
    I grew up with all the vaccines and never had reason to question their effectiveness, but now live my life listening to my wife rail against all such things on a regular basis. Try to understand, I spend a lot of time on Fchat, and respect most of the opinions here. So bouncing the stuff I get from the wife off the group here is helpful for me, and maybe for others? I get to take what I learn back to the wife to try to argue for the ones I feel are really important. And it's not a bad thing to let the rest of the forum know these are quacks when offered the chance, right?

    Maybe we could do it a little more politely.
     
  9. S Brake

    S Brake F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 3, 2006
    16,687
    Utah
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Bob, I hope nothing I said came off as condescending or derogatory.

    There is a lot of misinformation out there about vaccines and their side effects. I think what you're doing is smart, it's best to get all the info you can when it comes to vaccinating your kids. As you can see in the article I posted above, a simple shot can help avoid a lot of unnecessary sickness and death.
     
  10. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 6, 2010
    20,025
    Northern Virginia
    Full Name:
    Bob
    I appreciated everything you had to say. Truly. I quoted the post I had issue with.
     
  11. Wade

    Wade F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    19,657
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    And your wife's information is sourced from where? Like many others perhaps?

     
  12. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 6, 2010
    20,025
    Northern Virginia
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Well Wade, since she's working on her second graduate degree in nutrition, I'd venture to say she's not getting her information from celebrities.
     
  13. Wade

    Wade F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    19,657
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    Well shoot... then who can you believe?
     
  14. Tired of seeing this ad? Upgrade now
  15. Dom

    Dom F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 5, 2002
    6,955
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Dom V.
    Where are her degree's from?

    With all due respect, the articles you post are clearly bunk, and anyone trained in the scientific method and how to peer review literature should be able to figure that out.
     
  16. Scotty

    Scotty F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2003
    3,754
    Oregon
    Full Name:
    Scotty Ferrari
    I post this every time this subject comes up. For a lot of laypeople, they relate the following story--"I go the flu vaccine but still got the flu later". (I'm ignoring the idiotic statements that people got "the flu" from the "flu vaccine".) The only way this statement is supportable is if someone got a viral culture during their "flu" illness and it was substantiated that they had influenza, and not one of the dozen of other virus that are circulating (parainfluenza, adenovirus, etc.).

    The point is that there are dozens (if not hundreds) of different viral illnesses circulating this time of year that cause "influenza like symptoms" that are not influenza, and therefore the flu vaccine provides no protection from them.

    This is why anecdotal statements (aka personal experience) is almost worthless in this discussion. I'm am not dissing on anyone's personal beliefs--you are entitled to believe in whatever you choose, and you can have a debate about whether vaccines work, but you have to compare apples to apples--which means you got the vaccine and then, at least two weeks later, you got culture proven influenza.
     
  17. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 6, 2010
    20,025
    Northern Virginia
    Full Name:
    Bob
    I know my wife buys a lot of bull**** on the subject. She's one that also believes the shot can give you the flu which is obviously ridiculous. The items that cause me concern have more to do with contaminants, adjuvants, potentially dangerous preservatives and such. It always comes as a shock to me thar a group of people I have such great respect for can be so hoodwinked as to think that big pharma isn't abusing us for profit. We should always question what we put in our bodies.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
     
  18. Dom

    Dom F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 5, 2002
    6,955
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Dom V.
    That's an understandable concern. You do have to realize, however, that this stuff isnt just developed without fairly rigorous testing. FDA requires testing for safety first in animals, then in clinical trials of humans.

    Do mistakes happen- yes, they do, but I believe they are relatively rare.

    Regarding big pharma abusing us for profit- I don't think I can speak without bias here, as I am in "Big Pharma". I am one of thousands here that help to develop new drugs for new indications. Yes, the company wants to make a profit, that's what they're here for. My job is to test the safety of these new drugs. If I feel it is unsafe, it will not go beyond my group. I have killed plenty of drugs over my career due to potential toxicity concerns. I feel that the drugs I work on help to make people healthier, feel better, etc, with minimal safety concerns. I couldn't live with myself otherwise.
     
  19. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 6, 2010
    20,025
    Northern Virginia
    Full Name:
    Bob
    See, that's comforting. That's why I continue to bring these things up even though I'm usually roasted for it. If I bring up the topic of organic food, you have a bunch of hucksters yucking it up talking about how its all a scam and the same as the other produce on the store shelves. If that's the case, how to trust our own FDA? So I hope its not the case. One side of the nutrition propaganda debate they want us to ignore programs the FDA wants us to believe in, and the other side wants us to accept as gospel the FDA has our best interest in mind and at heart. So much of the general debate is hard to reconcile, that I intend to continue to bring up various subjects that are beaten into my head day in and day out by the nutritionist wife.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
     
  20. David_S

    David_S F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    7,178
    Mountains of WNC...
    Full Name:
    David S.
    Here's a (simple?) set of observations and a question for those in the know.

    We're often vaccinated in childhood or otherwise early in life for things like polio - and such vaccinations are generally considered a one time deal.

    Girls under 12 are being encouraged to get the HPV vaccine (though obviously, boys should too - even if it isn't so widely advertised).

    Us old folks are harped on to get the Shingles vaccine.

    But - almost every viral strain other than influenza is pretty much touted as a 1 time thing.

    Question: Why is the influenza vaccine a yearly dose? Sure, there are new strains & whatnot - but why is there not a vaccine that covers the most prevalent strains not only good enough for one year, but for a much longer time?
     
  21. Vinny Bourne

    Vinny Bourne Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2011
    872
    They are working on it, headlines a year ago from a British Univ., but...... I was going to do a longish post about the "medical-industrial complex" earlier today, then decided against it, but you post brings up the main gist.

    Docs are like machinists for the body, they can do certain things very well, that mostly involve actions -- that involve needles, scalpels, sutures, but they, humanity really does not know what is going on inside of the processes of the body. We are getting better, but far from the finish line. All the interactions are incredibly complex, that's why the aforementioned drugs have huge side effects, watched a commercial for any drug lately? Some drug trials have some people cured and lots of others worse off. I could go on..........
     
  22. Challenge

    Challenge Formula 3

    Sep 27, 2002
    1,388
    PA
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Stay the course and keep listening to your wife. She sounds like a smart lady. Although some vaccines can be effective, I believe the risk outweighs the reward.

    Most autoimmune diseases stem from the body trying to attack itself. There are likely multiple reasons for this, but the toxic load of the dozens of vaccines infants and children are required to be pumped up with is a major factor. 40 years ago, kids needed 4 or 5 vaccines; today it is 30+. The reaction of these chemical coaktails pumped into the human body if not natural. The body's reaction is to fight the invaders.

    Interesting tidbit: no autism in the Amish. No vaccines either.
     
  23. Wade

    Wade F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    19,657
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    Then please explain, convincingly, why so many young healthy people are dying from H1N1 this year.

    Note, as reported, most did NOT receive the flu shot.

    In case you missed this one...

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/silver-subscribed-private-forum/436305-get-your-flu-shots.html
     
  24. Wade

    Wade F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    19,657
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    Sorry, but that's total B.S.

     
  25. S Brake

    S Brake F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 3, 2006
    16,687
    Utah
    Full Name:
    Dave

    Not true.
    A study done by Vanderbilt and the university of Miami found that 1 in 271 in the Amish community have autism.
    Also, Reuters has reported that roughly 85 percent of Amish households have received at least one vaccination.
    https://imfar.confex.com/imfar/2010/webprogram/Paper7336.html
     
  26. Challenge

    Challenge Formula 3

    Sep 27, 2002
    1,388
    PA
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    There are other Amish besides the ones in Ohio. Did I also read that blurb correctly? Fear of vaccines has "infected" people? Oh Reuters, you are SO clever!

    Wade, seriously, I'm not going to go point-counterpoint with you or others here. Jab as many chemicals into your body as you are comfortable with and I will do the same.
     
  27. Wade

    Wade F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    19,657
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    It's the fear of vaccines that is increasing their risk. Doing an assessment, killer flu or questionable side effects from trace amounts of specific chemicals, I'll choose protection against the former.

    Personally, I have my fill of unknown injections from the first Gulf War, not about to accept any more. ;)
     

Share This Page