Pertaining nto thread http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23608 Have said it before and i'll say it again. Because you purchase a Ferrari in the USA, FNA gets $$$. Therefore you are voting with your dollars and supporting their behavior. FNA will continue UNLESS something truly gets their attention. We have lawyers and journalists here so... What is needede is a class action lawsuit (and you guys here have PLENTY of paperwork to support one) and ask ALL journalists you are friends with to report on it. Make as BIG a splash about it as you can (NY Times, etc). i am VERY serious here guys. It is YOU who are ALLOWING yourself to be treated in this manner.
Stevie, whut's up? Are you having a bad day or sumthang? Bit early for that isn't it, unless you never went to sleep. Dr "Concerned" Tax
Dr. T, thanks for the concern my friend. Just getting tired of hearing folks whine and cry about the way they are being treated by FNA. i mean, sheeeeesh... how many times over the past have we all seen threads about FNA denying things that they appear to be legally bound to fix. If the said model car has a KNOWN DEFECT (per repeated complaints) then a proper recall and replacement part should be offered. Pure and simple. Look at the TR seat belt for example. How many years did it take for that recall to transpire??? Color me someone who NEVER allows Big Company to ignore their legal responsibilities. But then again i guess SOME folks like wasting $$$$ and losing out on drive time due to certain known defective parts. This is yet another reason why i NEVER want to own a new Fcar. Ferrari UK (and Ferrari Italy) are truly a JOY and a PLEASURE to conduct business transactions. Am frankly surprised Ferrari (Italy) allows such behaviors by FNA. It makes for very bad public relations and it seems FNA may only really take notice when the general public become FULLY aware of how some United State citizens feel they are being treated. The United States is a VERY SIGNIFICANT market for Ferrari (Italy). Ferrari (Italy) is hopefully reading my post here and taking a deep, hard look at the business practices of FNA and certain dealers. Enjoy the Music (RATM "Settle For Nothing" right now), Steven R. Rochlin "...If we don't take action now We settle for nothing later Settle for nothing now And we'll settle for nothing later..."
Whats the prob? Ferrari is calling back all 2003 Modena´s and 2004 Stradales because of probable malfunctioning powersteering.
here's the problem as i see it. it's not so much FNA being bozos per se, but rather it's a constant tension between a few different factors. (1) some authorized dealers are just poor business people. poor people people. poor dealers. FNA needs to do a better job at pushing its dealers so that they maintain the HIGHEST level of customer satisfaction given what products and services they are selling, and the brand equity they are directly affecting by their actions or inactions. (2) the whole issue of independent mechanics seems to be a huge fly in the ointment for FNA and its dealer network. what i think the anecdotal data and conventional wisdom shows us is that if you buy and service at your authorized FNA dealer, you're likely to have far fewer headaches. i've experienced this myself - i've got an authorized dealer and three independents close by. is this kosher behavior? i'd guess it's somewhere right around "borderline", which probably means it can't really be litigated. so i sorta fail to see what specific "class action lawsuit" is warranted. i don't think you can bring a lawsuit that alleges "you guys suck!" - there has to be some specific claim of illegal or negligent or harmful behavior. what's the thought in this regard? doody
Basically, would like to see the 355 have certain recalls that are long overdue. Guess i am a bit cranky this morning and wish the 355 owners would get proper treatment through what appears to be much needed recalls. Guess the journalist in me feels it necessary to bring such things to the forefront. Am sure the thread title will get someone's attention higher up at Ferrari... and this is a good thing IMHO.
fair enough. the failing headers crap is total BS in my book. the customer base initially wrote it off as "if it was gonna happen by now it woulda happened" but that clearly isn't true. we've also seen replaced headers fail again. i'm currently trying to dig up all the skinny i can on the 550 spinning shock actuators. my understanding is that it's the same part and mounting assembly they've used on a number of previous and current models, but only in the 550 (and apparently only in some of them) does it spin and snap wires. clearly it's some sort of design defect - and at $400 a pop... i'm not yelling for any lawsuits yet though - data collection and analysis first. doody.
Doody, Many thanks for sharing your wisdom my friend. It is truly appreciated. This thread basically concerns the issues regarding the 355. Have seen quite a few posts about certain parts failing on the 355 and it would be nice for Ferrari to simply offer a recall and replace with IMPROVED parts. Agreed that some dealers (in many luxury good sectors) are more enthusiasts than business people. As such they may look at bottom line dollars over the long-term customer satisfaction. It is truly wonderful to have a business owner also enjoy what they are selling, yet they should also realize that making added efforts towards customer satisfaction can go a long, long way. As a consumer of luxury goods myself, have fully supported various companies with my dollars due to the quality of their product and how they treat their clientele. Yes the topic header is a BOLD statement, yet am sure that this thread will also get someone's attention high up on the "food chain" and this is a good thing. Hopefully we will see said problems resolved in quick order... and why i find the Internet so enjoyable. In the past such instances were a more "silent tale of woe." Today said situation are fully exposed for the world to see. While NOT looking to "bully" any company, if there are known issues with a design, said issues should be resolved properly. Imagine if the Ferrari 550 had repeated valve or clutch problems and many folks here with the same model were doomed to the same experience. Am sure you would want to see a proper solution accordingly my friend.
i agree with STEVEN. and aside from the f355, we have seen dealers who have left tools in cars that were found later, we have read stories by folks who have reciepts that ferrari dealer " x" did service "y" , and come to find out after purchase, that service "y" was not done and key seals , parts and procedures were not installed or followed. i dont know BrianCStradale, as a person, nor do i know what he does for a living ect. what i do know is that he could be ME in a few years, extremely excited about the delivery of HIS personally speced Ferrari. i read this stuff with great enthusiasim and find it very inspiring. same goes for Lamborghini purchases. but, i digress, i keep reading about how dealers and FNa keep bait and switching folks and refuse to give straight answers when asked. i have been made to feel so bad for these folks , that when i read these horrible threads about the problems with FNA and the dealer network, i felt physically sick for them. i cannot fathom saving and planning to get a new Ferrari and then have them tell me " they lost it" with no other info as to WHEN IS THAT CAR WITH THAT VIN. it damn well better be on the ocean floor somewhere. there is no way i have gone to school to be Licensed by the FAA and continued on to finish my 2 degrees, to give someone my money. i deal with owner / customers of $50 million aircraft all day. as a mere mechanic i treat every part as if my family and friends were on that aircraft. and i do not release it as airworthy until " its right" . ferraris are very expensive and should SET THE INDUSTRY STANDARD for performance, safety and reliability. instead "WE" the Tifosi have to argue why mere corvettes and ramair trans ams, porsche's ect can stomp our ass for less money. i have a ferrari now. the "RED MIST" is the blood and sweat of my lifes work to get where i am. what has FNA done for " US" the new buyers , other than piss all over those already needing service and assistance. i have loved and lusted after Ferrari and what it USED to stand for my whole life. it seems that with a few exceptions, only the old carb cars are any good. i am waiting to see what the changes the next few years bring. remember, when the new generations grow up and " care less" about a ferrari, WHO ARE YOU GOING TO SELL YOUR $$$$ CARS TOO? new, used and classic??????? time will tell baby. REAPER RANT IS OVER, FLAME AWAY.
It's a difference in the customer perception, IMO. In the "good old days" you bought a Ferrari if you were brave, adventurous, somewhat mechanically inclined because you KNEW sources of factory service and parts support were few or far between. A quick read of history reflects countless stories of insider market availabilty and manipulation. There's a reason these old cars got the motors ripped out and replaced with Chevys! In the current situation Ferrari has become "modern' in some respects and have darn sure dumped a boatload of electronic and tech cr@p, uh, I mean features, on the cars and as such have raised the bar as to what an independent service tech or owner, heaven forbid, could attempt to repair. So options are greatly reduced for independent service. It was interesting for me when I went to great effort to purchase the F355 World Tour book recently to read the romantic adventure of the journey as world press reps drove the car in it's circumnavigation. The only major problem during this press intro? Well what do ya know! BURNED THRU HEADERS! Bells went off and I thought "They still haven't fixed the problem." That's how long the factory has been aware of the week link! All the rest of this posturing is the strategy of a "modern" automotive manufacturer. It reminds me of my experiences with.....General Motors!
Paragraphs...reaper....Paragraphs lol! It's the "Enter" key! I let a blond college freshman coed Sea Scout have a go behind the wheel the other day. How'd you do with those cheerleaders? There has always been more passion than technical proficiency involved with these cars construction, even in the carb days.....that's not new to the equation!
Guys, while I understand your passion, you need to understand that things don't work this way. First off, the odds of getting certified for a class action suit are somewhere between zero and none. Nada. More importantly, a lawsuit will not change how FNA or Ferrari Spa does buisness. What will change things? Simple, if people stop buying Ferraris, this will get their attention. Ain't gonna happen, you say? Well, there you have it. Actually, I suggest that if someone approached FNA or Spa in a calm and reasonable manner, odds are good that you will get your specific problem fixed. Ask Maranelloman. It worked for him. But storming the ramparts is just gonna git you more frustration. Somehow I don't think a jury of your peers is gonna be to impressed by a bunch of unhappy Ferrari owners. Just my 2 cents and some change. DrTax
this thread has greatly concerned me. i'm beginning to feel like a chump for putting in an order for a new ferrari with a $10k deposit. i'm glad it won't be here for 2+ yrs. lots of time to change my mind if such lousy customer service persists. forget lexus--porsche would never treat their cusomers this way!
the consumer.Although I'd be willing to sign a petition. Screw FNA . I will probably be purchasing a Porshe next becuase of their bull****.
I hope you locked in the price. I had a friend do that and he did not have the foresight to lock in a price and when the car got delivered, he was told it was 50K more. You are not only buying a car, you are speculating in foreign currencies when you order a Ferrari. Good luck gary
Is "pettifoggers" in the dictionary? Great word! We like to say around the shop, that lots of folks visit FerrariWorld, but few have the patience and fortitude to LIVE there! LOL Machines run, they age, they break.
The old days you bought a Ferrari and it would overheat, foul plugs in traffic and have many other issues, one Ferrari tore off a womans foot when the clutch disintegrated, now people expect a Ferrari a ultra high performance small car maker to have the reliability of a Honda and the great financial power of a Gm to fix every small defect in these cars, not gonna happen especially with people on waiting lists to buy them. The US car makers only took notice to quality and customer service when it impacted their pocketbooks from the Japanese cars outselling them, it would take the same situation for Ferrari to care.
I'm inclined to agree. I doubt a class action suit could be successfully brought against FNA. And even if it was successful, it's doubtful that FNA would change its approach to customer service. I'm sure FNA/Ferrari Spa has contemplated whether to address some of the widely known problems with the 355. Its internal analysis probably looked something like this: 1. Is there a pattern of defects? Confirmed. 2. Will it be expensive to correct defects? Confirmed. 3. If defects are not corrected under warranty/recall, will loyal owners defect to other brands? Perhaps. 4. Does demand for current products exceed supply? Confirmed. 5. Net effect on bottom line? Negligible. 6. Suggested course of action? Pass the pasta. All that said, if a class action is brought against FNA, just let me know where to sign.
I'll also support an action - especially on the headers. Doody - consider yourself lucky...the same shock on the 355 is over $1K each and they typically only sell them only in pairs. Frank
I don't mean to discourage any of you, but have the following observations: 1. The threat, or the actuality of litigation is rarely a motive force in industries like this, particularly when you are not raising public relations issues of passenger safety. In addition, as Dr. "Lawman" Tax pointed out, class actions involve alot of preliminaries having nothing to do with the merits, but present all sorts of opportunities for delay, expense, and did i mention delay- ultimately leading to the question whether a class can be defined, its representative plaintiffs determined, and the process "certified" by the court before anything meaningful could happen. Then, you have just arrived at the entrance to the system; stand in line. Unless there is some huge financial upside to winning, you'll be hard-pressed to find a good lawyer/firm to handle this. 2. There is a natural resistance by the dealers, and by the manufacturer, to simply saying OK every time a costly warranty item is in question. The dealers aren't necessarily operating with their own money to begin with, and for them to cover until they wait to verify that they will be reimbursed puts them at risk. Granted, a dealer could handle that situation behind the scenes without making it an issue with the customer. But, unlike other professions which meet certain standards of intelligence, ethics and good personal relations (eg, lawyers, accountants and priests), alot of dealers just don't know how to deal with their customers in a way which doesn't hurt the relationship. 3. The manufacturer will be equally reluctant to acknowledge the problem across the board,given the expense of retrofitting an entire production run. So, you may get help on a case by case basis, but looking for a broad based acknowledgment of a defect by a manufacturer is as likely as getting a politician to acknowledge a mistake or impropriety: "you call that evidence?" "What blue dress?" "Young boys?" "WMD?" You get the point. 4. I have found FNA to be much easier to deal with than most big car manufacturers. I would encourage you to talk with them, nicely, about sorting the problem(s) out. If there are outright refusals to stand behind clearly defective parts that should be covered by warranty, and there is a group of you suffering from the same plight, then have a lawyer ghost write a "joint" letter on your behalf; i still would not encourage confrontation, cause its a loser. I'd bet you'll get more traction this way. 5. Point of reference: look at any other car- major problems, often quietly handled- BMW 7's; various MB's; etc. The fact that your car costs alot more than these doesn't mean you should have less worries; it makes it more likely there will be a problem, given the low production, sophistication, level of performance, etc. My thoughts, freely shared, since i find most lawsuits to be counterproductive, costly and highly disruptive, even when you are right.
ROTFLMSAO Very well said, sir. You must be one of those Havard MBA types! Actually, I know that most car guys don't like Lexus, but I gotta say that you need to buy one just to experience customer service the likes of which you have never seen. Unbelievable! Take care, DrTax
I have a 355, my headers and cats have not fail yet, I have only owned my car a year now. but I do have AC panel and air bag cover that looks bad, alarm battery failures and I have had to upgrade my AC 30Amp fuse holder like a lot of other people. I have owned a lot of cars in my life but from what I have read on Ferrarichat about problems, I belive 355 owners should get together and stand up to FNA on these items.
