"For want of a nut, an engine was lost"?

Have you tried one of those magnetic stipped retrievers? I would probe every little hole to try to find it. A small part can do allot of damage. You snap a cam belt over a little piece, you are looking about $3000-$4000 in damages. I know its frustrating, but its not worth the risk IMO.

 

Dave, i feel your pain. 308's have a Burmuda triangle under them, i swear. the control arms are favorite place for stuff to land, as are the flat frame tubes and flat surfaces of the trans/diff. my car tried to eat my 13mm wrench one day. it was UNDER the transaxle , flat on the frame tube and would have fallen off when i drove the car. i did find it, but it took forever. i use a small inspection mirror that i made for aircraft work on my cars.it does help given the strange angles ect. best, Michael

 

Inspection mirrors are very handy for this kind of thing. Sears has a good one for about $10. I use mine all the time. I would really try to find the nut if I were you.

Are you SURE it didn't hit the floor and vanish?

Birdman

 

I had a similar situation on my 61 GTE - and lord I looked for a minimum of 4 hours for the screw I dropped... It turned up in on top of the front axel - just sitting there blending in... The only reason I found it - was when I was going under the car for about the 10th time - I put my hand on the cross member - and my hand hit the darn thing....

I thought it was down in the engine - I saw it hit the engine - and it looked 100% like it went down in there somewhere... Moral of the story - Check everything else - wheels, ground - 10 feet away, fender areas, etc.

Those things will take crazy bounces - even if you swear you know where it went..

 

Gavity is your freind, it makes thing fall down. Inspect the area inside the cover, if the nut isn't there, button it up and don't worry. The nut will not fall up and get into the belt.

 

Years ago, I was setting my cam timing on my 330 GTC. I was removing the bolts from the front sprocket of the camshaft. I usually put a rag into the front of the sprocket to catch any dropped pieces. Well, I was lazy and did not. I was pulling the bolt out and the lock washer fell off the bolt and disappeared down the front of the motor. I tried mirrors, magnets, nothing worked. I guess I could have turned the car over and shook it!
I called a friend who is a doctor and had a 330 2+2. He had a great idea. We pulled the lower oil pan off and fished the motor with a fiberoptic proctoscope! We laid under the car ( it was on jackstands) and weeded our way forward and up. He was looking through the eyepiece . The proctoscope has a small light at it's end. The scope is also flexible and bends . He found the lockwasher laying on top of the oil pump drive gear. I threaded a small wire tumer extractor up the scope and grabbed the washer. Then I just pulled it out through the scope. Cool Huh? The doctor told me that my engine was a lot cleaner than where that scope had been.
I was told by a mechanic that the lockwasher probably just fell down to the bottom of the pan and not to worry about it. I would never be comfortable just letting it go.
Don't give up until you find it. They sell similar fiberoptic scopes for mechanics to use . See if you can find one. It's alot cheaper than a Ferrari Motor. Maybe you could rent one. Who knows what you will find down there.
Good Luck,
Tom

 

If you still have no luck looking with a mirror, or probing with a magnetic retriever, try covering all of the openings where you don't want dirt or debris entering (carb intakes, spark plug tubes, etc.) with masking tape or whatever works for you.
Then blow compressed air into all the areas that are hard to access with a long tip blowgun. This should dislodge the nut, and cause it to jump around or fall out under the car.

A fresh set of eyes also helps, have a friend look around to see if they can find it.

Brian Brown
Pattick Ottis Co.

 

I hope Dr. Procto cleans that thing up good before cramming it up somebodys wazzoo. Another trick I learned entirely on my own, sacrifice another nut. Just take another nut, and drop it exactly as you accidently dropped the other one, only this time, watch where it goes. I have had better than 90% success every time. I once dropped a ball bearing from out of a triple tree on a Yamaha motorcycle. I really didnt want to sacrifice another ball, but seeing as it wasnt going to work with 36, I needed that number 37 ball. This was the most successful I ever got. I took a ball, and dropped it exactly where the other one dropped, and watched it bounce through the bike, hit the floor, and roll clear over to the other side of the garage, under a work bench, and there it sat. 1/2 an inch away from the other dirty ball. I swear it was almost 20 feet away. Try it, it works. Although I will add one caveat, sometimes you have to try it a couple times. That ball bearing was a total fluke.

 

Last year, This reminds me of the ball bearing that was embedded in the end of the stator shaft of my cooling fan motor. I caught it when I pulled the housing apart but when I did the other motor the ball bearing popped out never to be seen again. I swept a magnet over every inch of my garage.

Out of time and desparate to get the car on the road I used a BB out of my CO2 pellet gun. It worked great.

This winter I pulled the fans again to install new brushes and while cleaning up the bench before starting work I found the original missing ball bearing in a small cup full of stainless screws.

Amazing.

 

If you think the F-car is bad, try working on a ricer. (I swear, those Toyotas are built all at once -- during disassembly, every part comes off last.)

Over the years, I've collected a triple claw probe, a magnetic probe, and a couple of extending wand mirrors. (The claw probe came in handy when a neighbor locked her keys in her car. And again when a Bimmer owner dropped the oil filler cap onto the bottom engine cover at a gas station.)

A couple of years back, I dropped one of the plastic locking clamps that holds the HT lead to the coil on my 328. I looked everywhere, shoved probes into every place I could reach -- no joy. When I moved the car back a bit, it fell onto the ground.

You might take a lesson from the sub service and try "angles and dangles" -- lift the back of the car, then lift the front and lower the back. (Realistically, I doubt you could get enough angle with a floor jack to do much good. Depending on the controls, a floor lift can give a car a good shake, though.)

 

Have you moved the car at all? Check the tire treads, it might have stuck in there.

 

hello dave ... by coincidence .....

Gina and I are currently undergoing the pleasures of major service in the confines of a nice warm garage, until ....

Lifting off the last of the cam caps off the front exhaust cam, I thought i had stupidly dropped a washer into the motor (one of the two fell to the floor). The paper covering plug hole #7 had blown out (after compression test). It was a million to one chance, but it could have dropped into the combustion chamber. It could have dropped down one of the two oil drain openings down into the sump.

A pal loaned me an endoscope, (make friends with a chap that works for a tool hire company) with which i searched within #7 chamber .... no washer (it did prove to be a useful tool to also check other cylinders).

Down the two oil ways the endoscope went ... no washer.

Next job, .... off with the sump pan ... no washer, but i did spot the lower end (exit) of the two oil ways, so it had not travelled down there.

Exhaust off, heatshields off, alternator off ... no washer.

Check pans collecting coolant and oil ... no washer.

What if .... there was no existing washer on that particular cam cap ?

I am now confident, the washer was missing, or has lodged somewhere harmless. But to be sure, once the timing gear is reinstated, I will be able to drop all pistons to BDC ... then, i may double check all the cylinders with the endoscope.

Sorry for rambling on Dave, but you are going to have to be 100% sure the nut in question is not capable of fouling things up once you start the motor.

Whip off the covers, cam belts and tensioners..... water pump should be 'safe' ... you cannot afford to take any chances whatsoever ..... a few hours, and a few dollars invested now could save a small fortune in the very near future.
That's quite apart from the 'peace of mind' factor.

You know it makes sense !

cheers, d

 

on my 78 308. When I was changing the coils out, I had lost a 8mm nut. I did not notice it because the coils came with new nuts.

I took the car out for a test drive and drove the crap out of it. When I pulled in the garage I heard a ticking sound that was not from the valve train or engine. I left the car overnight and in the morning, I backed the car out and I saw a flicking light from the belts. My 78 did not have the cam belt covers that are flush against the engine block.

I stopped the motor and I saw a 8mm nut poked through the belt. I freaked out. I called Wade at Monaco Motors and had the car towed to he to have the belt changed. When I got the belt back, there was a perfect retangle cut in the belt. Lucky it did not skip or break.

 

Dragging a magnetic probe around the engine bay can find all sorts of stuff -- even things you weren't looking for.

If a magnet probe doesn't get it, I'd shake the heck out of the suspension at all four corners (to simulate the worst pothole you're likely to encounter) (yes, I know the suspension is stiff -- it might take full weight on the bumper) -- all the while listening for the musical sound of a nut plinking through the darkworks.
Then blast with air again, and run the magnet one more time.

If it ain't moved after all that, then I'd say that whereever it is, it's there to stay.

(And if past experience is any guide, having drawn that conclusion, it'll drop onto the garage floor the moment you move the car. )

 

Last year I dropped a nut in my Porsche. I heard it bounce, then nothing. I looked and looked with the car on my lift. Nothing. Hours passed and frustration increased.

What I did to find the nut, coincidentally a 13 mm one, was tie fine line to another nut. I remembered where I dropped it so I dropped nut with the line tied to it over and over checking where it landed. The tethered nut eventually slipped into a hollow support for the engine. Bingo, I located the missing nut by fishing inside the support with a small magnet on a string.

 

Last year I was working on my BMW 2002 and drooped a special 13 mm flanged nut .I heard it hit the floor ,could not find ,looked for it for hours ,had to order a new one ,special nut to hold side draft carbs on ,.
Fast forward a few weeks doing an oil change for a friend ,I slid out my oil catch pan that is stored under my tool box,and low and behold there in a bit of oil is my special nut.This nut had to bounce in a60deg. angle and then fit in about a 1buy1 inch space to get in to the oil catch pan.
THOSE NUTS HAVE A MIND OF THEIR OWN!!
DAVID

 

Well ...

... Nah -- There are some straight lines even I won't touch.

 

I'm sure your'e all dying to know whatever happened to the infamous washer ..... well. to the relief of all, i found it on the garage floor today ..... Whoooppeeeee !
cheers, d

 

Glad to hear you found it.

A friend of mine is putting together a 383 stroker for his 72 Chevy pickup, and he had the new cylinder head bolts lined up on a shop rag on the floor of the garage. A week ago, he saw his 3 y.o. daughter playing with one of the bolts, and told her to "put them down, those aren't toys."

Yesterday, he's putting the cylinder heads on, and is missing a cylinder head bolt. He goes and gets his daughter, and asks her if she took one of the bolts. She smiled and pointed down into the empty headlight recess of the pickup truck. He got a flashlight and a long screwdriver and was poking around, but couldn't find it. He gave up and told his daghter to go back inside.

She said, "Keep looking daddy, its there." Sure enough, he kept poking around from somewhere underneath the radiator support and made it fall to the ground.

 

and the Winner is ...........................Michael (thecarreaper)!

 

It is equally amazing how depresed one becomes whilst the infamous 'piece' is missing ?
glad all is well.
d

 

A long while ago I was watching my housemate work on his Cobra carburettors. While fiddling with the carbs he dropped an important nut, it definitely hit the concrete as we heard it tinkle below the car, bounced and took off -whereabouts unknown. After many minutes searching for it, we gave up until my friend had the proverbial lightbulb go off. He looked me square in the eyes and announced "I know, watch this!. He left and returned a couple of minutes later with his "SCHUTZEN" trained Rottwieler. He held a similar nut and made him sniff it. He then spoke one word in German ("SEARCH") and within one minute the dog had sniffed the entire area 20 x60 and located the nut under a pile of leaves about 20 feet away. I know this is not particularly useful in an engine compartment but illustrates that there are many solutions to this age old dilemma. Makes a humorous story and I believe gives creedence to the amazing results of search and rescue dogs.
Ross