Ford GT 139,995

Shame on them for trying to score some money from the Ford GT. When has a car been produced that lost money, and remained in production, because it was the halo car? The NSX, for starters.

The "new" Ferrari's coming out in a couple years will be compared to the faster version of the Ford GT. For now, the Enzo enjoys its stay on the top, but when a 1/2 price better performing piece of American iron comes along that beats the Enzo, we get into the, "well its still not a Ferrari battle".

Ford has no desire or lack of business sense to try and displace Ferrari. Ford is in business of making practical, affordable, everyday pieces of transporation. Ferrari makes cars built out of passion and charges as much as they can get away with. Two entirely different philosophies. Ford builds to the market majority and Ferrari to the market niche. So what happens when Ford, or any other volume manufacturer, targets Ferrari's market niche? The same thing that has been happening in the past - Ferrari loses. For example, GT40. NSX. Lamborghini. Thats just for starters.

No, we wouldn't all be driving black tin lizzy's if Henry had his way. There are every day cars that are built with as much passion as Ferrari's, but with better build quality that are no less striking or desirable.

Sunny

 

Interesting how all the cars that come out want to compare themselves to a Ferrari. From the Ford GT (their clearly stated objective was to beat the 360) to the Gallardo, Murci, CGT and on and on. All these marques have Ferrari as the brand they try and beat. You dont typically see Ferrari saying we are building a car to beat the Ford or the Porsche or Lambo. They dont advertise. Yet they have people lining up to buy their cars. This creates resentment. This stirs people like Allanlambo and others to come to this site and trash Ferrari - saying it should be this and should be that. It's slower than a Lambo. You know what most people that are attracted to Ferrari's dont buy it for its 0-60 times or the stats etc.

It is what it is. Either enjoy it for what it is or be happy with other marques. There is a mystique with Ferrari. There are intangibles when wanting one. You cant put that on paper.

This "my dad will beat your dad stuff" is getting boring. If Ford comes out with a car that can beat an Enzo - great. Will it make the Enzo less desireable? No. Does the fact that a Supra can beat an F40 matter? No. 1000 people out of 1000 would take the F40. Does the fact that a Z06 is faster than a 360 matter? No. The only reason it seems to matter is cos people come here and say I have this car or I read of a car that is faster than your Ferrari and I paid 1/3 the price - now dont you look stupid. Then the person who owns the Ferrari says but I didn't buy it to be the fastest and the [fill in the car name] is not a Ferrari. People will then turn away and say arrogant ass. That's not the case. If the person who bought a 360 really wanted a Z06 or a Gallardo or a GT2, they could have bought that car instead. Think about that - they could afford any of those cars too. They chose not to because it isn't a Ferrari. That's not arrogance - its a choice they are making. Leave it be.

 

Napolis.....

I agree with you 100%.

Nothing more than a restart of the great auto manufacturer's racing wars would make me happier. I was an 11 year old kid when I saw the 24 hours of LeMans live in 1970. A Porsche 917 won that race giving Stuttgart it's first victory of many.....we know the rest of this story.

The Ford GT is a fantastic first shot across the bow and hopefully all this HP coming from the factories will once again grace that great track in some form once again.

Interesting thread.

 

well said, rodsky

 

They disassembled a 360 because it had the principles they wanted to incorporate when designing the revised GT40. The reason they are building the Ford GT in the first place is to celebrate the marque's 100th anniversary. No different from Ferrari building the Enzo to celebrate its founder.

The Ford GT is what it is. A revival of one of the greatest cars of all time, something the Enzo and many Ferrari's can't claim they are and something Ferrari DID have trouble competing against before and now they will again. So did Porsche.

There's no less mystique with other marques and the same intangibles that you want in your Ferrari's others simply see in the Ford GT instead. Or in something else.

Yes, it does make the Enzo less desierable to some. Yes, it does matter to some people if a Supra can beat an F40. 1000 out of 1000 people? I wouldn't bet money on it.

If the Ford GT was not being attacked by those with the same arrogance, I wouldn't be making this post in its defense. And I say to those, leave it be.

Sunny

 

Ford has yet to allocate any GTs to the dealers. Ford has said that the top customer satisfaction dealers, called Presidents Award Dealers, will get one of the first built. Then they will go to high volume dealers and finally a lottery system will be used. The car will be very limited at first but Ford is definitely known for trying to milk a good thing so who knows how many they will eventually build.
Any dealer who offers you an allocation at this date is not being honest. As I said, the cars have not been allocated yet.

 

Well said Johnbob,

Rodsky, that has to be one of the best posts I have read to date. Agree 110%

 

Where has anybody seen that the Ford GT will be raced? Everything I've seen indicates that Ford has no intention of racing it.

"This is only the beginning." ROFL. More like this is it. If you want to see an indication of what performance Fords will be like in the future, take a look at the 2005 Mustang. Basically the same old crap with different sheetmetal.

 

heres the link for that article http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=08555349

 

Sunny - I personally happen to think that the Ford GT looks to be an amazing car. 500HP (somewhere ), stunning performance, great looks and I for one would not trash it for a second. I would seriously consider buying one at $140K - there's nothing close to it at that price.

However, mystique and intangibles are something altogether different. If Ford had these intangibles why would they charge less for a car that is supposedly better than a 360 in every way? Its hard to be completely passionate about a marque that also sells pick up pickup trucks. That's just brand positioning - Ferrari's, Patek Philipe, - are positioned differently to Ford, Timex, Citizen. Citizen could come out with the best performing platinum watch and it still would not generate passion or command a higher price than a Patek. Thats just fact. You have to respect Ford for their race successes in the 60's and you have to respect the GT but on the whole Ford will not generate passion like a Ferrari will.

The only reason Ferrari owners say "its not a Ferrari" is they are oftentimes asked to "justify" why they would rather have a Ferrari vs. something seemingly faster and/or costs less money. Same with Patek owners. Why buy a $50,000 watch when a $30 one is better. Most times they would rather not try and explain themselves. That's very similar to this "well its not a Ferrari battle" you refer to..

Cheers

 

The stated hp/performance vs the actual production numbers are a major Ford downfall.

It also has to be seen how they hold up on the track. It also seems to be that once there is a serious challenge to Ferrari/Lambo, the factories will respond accordingly. If Ford wants to challenge the Ferrari every 40 years, good for them, it just raises the bar, although the Fords true colors will show. I wish them luck, everyone loves an underdog.

Ferrari is STILL what others are measured against.

 

so so true. every performance car that comes out is made to beat a Ferrari of some kind. and the only company taht has come close would be Porsche... until now it seems.

 

One thing about all this is that Ferrari has made a crucial mistake. One that gets my goat and makes me think about an Aston DB9 before a 575.

That is, Ferrari has not really put much effort into Le Mans etc as a factory entry. Formula One is a great test bed, but I like the Ducati philosophy, what is running on the track is exactly what many spectators rode to the track. You can't say that about the Ferraris because the Prodrive 550 etc are all aftermarket mutts.

 

Ive always thought it would be neat if Ferrari made more close to race models like the CS and the challenge but push that even further to give the buyer a more racey experience.

 

Incorrect strategy, Number One.

So NOT true. The performance cars that manufacturers design their cars against are not against the benchmark set by Ferrari, but by PORSCHE. Possibly Chevy (Z06). Possibly Dodge (Viper).

Ferrari has not been the car to beat since the 512TR. And even then, Porsche already built something faster (959).

The true performance enthusiast cares about ONE THING over EVERYTHING. Going faster. These people buy the car that gives them the biggest hard on.

That is the car that beats at least one or more of the cars on a short list: Z06, Viper, 996tt/GT3/GT2/959, Ford GT, Diablo/Murci/Gallardo, Exige, Noble, Caterham, Radical, Saleen, Zonda, Koenigsegg, and possibly the Veyron, and the Carrera GT.

These cars are obtainable. Notice which car marque is missing from that list, by making the one car to compete on it that is not obtainable? Ferrari. Ferrari has all the right to belong to this list, but they don't and that is disappointing.

Possibly, with the Stradale, however its too little too late. The next generation cars from the competition already make the Stradale look like a several year old performance car.

The Ford GT joins the ranks of the three manufactuers fighting Porsche for the best performance car crown, a fight Ferrari has been losing.

Rodsky, this is what I meant with regards to my post. I understand exactly what you mean by intangibles, however, the name of the game with the Ford GT is performance first.

Those who need to justify their purchase must realize they did not buy a performance car and the need to compare/justify should no longer exist. What out there can compare to a Ferrari in terms of mystique, style, heritage, and pedigree in the eyes of the average consumer? Nothing.

If its one thing I've learned on this site, it is that Ferrari is not the best at the one thing that will continue to ALWAYS BE MEASURED, and that is performance.

Porsche understands this. Is it any surprise it remains one of the most prestigous marques ever that has remained independant? Think about it.

Sunny

Edit: I'm discovering I'm more a Timex/Citizen purchaser, looking for the top model of that line, vs a Patek buyer. It is for the reasons in this post that prevent me from spending my money on a Ferrari. I'm discovering the intangibles to me do not overshadow the need to own one of those cars that can compete with those on the list above.

 

Funny, my brother said the same exact thing to me earlier today.

 

Ferrari has been letting it slide lately, true.

It has been "sell cars to finance our F1 addiction," which has really gotten me madder and madder.

A 200mph topend in a 550 is nice, a 220 top end in an F50 was ok, but by now the Enzo is a HUGE disappointment to me and many others with ugly looks, and dismal top end. Then again Enzo himself said he did not want to get caught up in speed wars. Maybe that is why FX/Norwood/Koenig/Etc make aftermarket parts so attractive.

These cars are all in a similar class, and on paper and closed track tests they all sound great. It is not until they hit the track with skilled drivers that the true nature and abilities come out.

 

I agree, especially regarding the Enzo. Enzo said he did not want to get caught up in a speed war, however, what do you think this says about Ferrari and its true nature when you do hit the track with a skilled driver?

Enzo saying that, to me, means they have lost/given up some of their competitive nature that made them so great in the first place.

I never thought I would say this, but, I'm really starting to like Porsche more, the more I think about it and the more I look at my budget and what I will be able to afford. Please for give me. For now, an XJR/E55/M5. Than a 993/996tt and beyond...

Hmmm. I feel like I just committed treason.

Sunny

 

I disagree on the Enzo being dissapointing in anything, but price and availability. To me, the Enzo looks great, although not as good as a Murcielago, and its performance is stellar. I care more about 60-150mph than top end, and the Enzo hits the mark in this area. If it were 275,000, even 300,000 id buy one. At an msrp of 699,000 i would never even consider it.

 

Well said. You guys need to read these posts before you start flapping those fingers. I think that Mr. G is being very patient in trying to tell you that the GT is gonna to be one hell of a car.

The bar just got raised, again.

DrTax

ps I'm looking forward to seeing the GT again at the Detroit car show. It would be nice if they would let people sit in it cause I'm dying to see if I fit. Can't believe that I'm going to the frozen tundra again. Detroit in January is serious cold!

 

It will be interesting - I wanted one until it turned out to be a total porker, the result being that a production Viper bested it in many tests. If you want to buy bragging rights, exclusivity and good looks, go for it. But that may be it.

The car can't even take you and a friend somewhere for a weekend unless you want to bungee your luggage on top. So you say it's a PERFORMANCE car to be used on track? I think it is very questionable whether the supercharged engine and heavy weight make the car usable on track without significant problems. I understand Ford already had to put the iron block in the car to keep it from grenading.

At $140K I will wait to see what one can really do before considering a purchase.

The poseur crowd that won't or can't use the car the way it is touted to perform will probably be happy enough, but all show and no go is a shameful thing.

 

It'll get even more interesting when the next-gen Corvette Z06 comes out. Not an exotic but a bargain supercar for sure.

 

For once - I for one completely agree with Allan. You can make a car with the Enzo's HP go much faster (at the top end). But that's ridiculous unless you want to go to Bonneville salt flats and just measure top end. How many people in a 550, Murcie, or any other really fast car will ever go 200 - yes and in anticipation of a smart alec answer - even on a track. Its how fast you can get to 175'ish that really matters.

If you look at production cars, the Enzo and the Mclaren F1 are tops. Perhaps the Mclarens 0-60 and top end are even better (depending on which numbers you believe . But the Enzo is more modern and as such - has much better handling, braking, etc. It would be much faster around a track. So how it is a disappointment completely baffles me.