Ford GT / Some in-person observations | FerrariChat
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Ford GT / Some in-person observations

Discussion in 'American Muscle' started by Doody, Jan 28, 2005.

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  1. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
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    Mr. Doody
    #1 Doody, Jan 28, 2005
    i know some folks (and you know who you are) are going to give me grief for posting this, but i've got pretty thick skin, and i think some of it is worth saying.

    i have been a huge GT fan since the first time i ever laid eyes on a picture of one of the originals. heck, for all i know, it was a replica, but sexy is a word that barely begins to define the GT shape - never mind its performance (then and now).

    i'm #1 on my dealer's list for a new GT. but for better or for worse, my dealer, like most dealers, is instead trying to extract maximum bucks. they've had their first car (which they spec'd) on the floor for a few months now and they're not sure whether they're auctioning it off or just selling it to the highest bidder (no, i'm not sure what the difference is either). regardless, it's uninteresting to me in red with stripe, and i'm basically unwilling to pay over sticker. they claim they will be getting only one more car, and as of my last conversation with them, they wren't going to sell that one to me either - they were going to spec it themselves and auction it off. i reiterated to them that i'm interested if they get another allocation and i can spec the car myself.

    i'm at a loss to imagine a more fun garage than one with a CS and a GT in it :).

    all that said, i finally had some time to stop by my dealer recently to play with their one car. mind you i wasn't permitted to drive it because (a) they weren't letting anybody drive it and (b) there was plenty of fresh snow on the ground. but i was able to spend about 30 minutes with the car poking around, on, and in it.

    net-net, (on-the-road performance, which i have obviously not experienced, aside) i walked away underwhelmed and far less impressed than i expected to be. i imagine a jaunt down 90 and a couple good exit ramps could change my mind licketysplit, but in the absence of that, the car has some, imo, notable sub-optimalities (if that's a word).

    for the avoidance of doubt, ford nailed the big-picture design. the car is sultry and pretty and amazingly gorgeous - from a distance. once you really start to look at it hard and even study it, there's plenty of decisions they made that are in various places between "questionable" and "wacky".

    the sheetmetal of the car has like a thousand panels. maybe i'm i'm spoiled by the extensive, curvy and windy panels that ferrari puts together (the 550 rear haunches come to mind), but this car has more body panel seams than any car i can recall really taking a hard look at. i guess it's cheaper to build (less manufacturing lossage), but there are just a TON of body panel seams. and once i noticed this, i couldn't NOT see it anymore. in addition, it also has a plethora of black plastic bits all over the exterior. it kinda reminds me of the new elise (though far less obnoxious!).

    given all the panel joins and the black plastic bits, i now understand explicitly why i only like the car in black - it looks MUCH smoother without all the visual distractions.

    the roof-cut-in door was a smart idea for lemans back in the 60s. form following function - good stuff. but nostalgia aside, it's really kinda dumb now. it poses two real problems. the first is that you're PETRIFIED of shutting the door the first couple times 'cuz if you adjusted the seat wrong (or hadn't adjusted it yet) the damn thing will positively clock you! the second problem is that the design apparently creates all sorts of extra weight for the hinges to bear. the car i was spendign time with has minimal miles on it and is 3 months old and the door doesn't close right already - it catches on the roof - you have to slam it to get the cut-in "lifted" up properly. maybe this car's door was just mis-adjusted (and certainly there are big-ass armored sedans with heavier doors), but it sure smells like a recipe for a repetitive annoyance.

    on the interior, there's a row of sliver switches mid-dash that were nothing short of "appallingly craptacular" in quality. the cheapest, crappiest, silver painted plastic i think i've ever seen. i mean, my two year old has toys with better plastic on them - and this is a $150K car. i was FLABBERGASTED at them. they're horrifying in both visual design, look, and tactile response (wildly horrific in the latter - i was afraid i was going to break them!).

    the radio is impressively silly. it has a setup like the CS with a big mid/sub between the seats, but it juts out like fifty feet. the CS one looks silly, but this one looks like a damn cannon between the seats - it's wacky. it isn't so horribly awkward when you're in the car, but it's damn weird. more annoyingly, the actual head unit is partially blocked on the drivers' side by instrumentation that's above and pushed-out towards you (if you can imagine that). the whole radio implementation is just an afterthought bolt-on exercise imo and they should have just skipped it.

    i don't see how you can heel-and-toe the car. the brake pedal is VERY high. the clutch is a very long throw. and the gas pedal is somewhere in between. though the gears felt very nice to cycle through - super notchy, no ambiguity. tasty. i inquired as to whether the pedals were manually adjustable, nobody knew. i stuck my head down there and it didn't look like it, but who knows.

    the cabin is quite small. the roof is quite low. i'm 6' even tall and i think i'd be hard-pressed to fit in there with a helmet on.

    the seats were a major disappointment. ignoring the weird design with the big holes in the cushions (is there some functional purpose to this?), i found the seats to be just damn uncomfortable because of a weird ridge where the horizontal cushion meets the vertical cushio. it makes it such that your butt sits on the ridge wrong unless you're very very vertical. but if you're very very vertical, your head hits the roof. i totally didn't get the seats. i mean, we all know what good seat design is, and it's no secret. a dozen companies make great racing car seats - why couldn't they just buy these off of somebody's parts shelf?

    so that's one boy's opinion after spending some quality time with one of these ladies. i keep reading magazine article after magazine article about how perfect these cars are (and admittedly NO car is perfect) and some of the journalism is just bugging me given my (limited) personal experience with the vehicle.

    all this said, i did NOT tell my dealer to take me off his list ;) - but i expected much much more from the car.

    fwiw,
    doody.
     
  2. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 7, 2003
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    #2 Etcetera, Jan 28, 2005
    A Ford at any price will still be a Ford!

    :D
     
  3. Bill Sawyer

    Bill Sawyer Formula 3

    Feb 26, 2002
    2,108
    Georgia
    #3 Bill Sawyer, Jan 28, 2005
    Great analysis. Disappointing, but we want to know the truth.

    On the original Ford GT the holes in the seats were meant for ventilation. I have no idea whether it worked or not.


    On another (short) subject, is this your old 550:

    http://www.naplesmotorsports.com/99_black_550.htm
     
  4. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
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    #4 Doody, Jan 28, 2005
    yes sir. she's in sunny florida and man i wish i were too!

    doody.
     
  5. bobafett

    bobafett F1 Veteran

    Sep 28, 2002
    9,193
    #5 bobafett, Jan 28, 2005
    Dude-man, always a pleasure to have your impressions. Pity that the car is all go and no show.

    Another quibble with the doors is that you literally need two parking spots - you can't enter and exit them seemingly if there is a car parked anywhere near you due to the roof coming with it.

    Just hold out, 2 years, 80k, and a black/blk with aftermarket seats.

    --Dan
     
  6. damcgee

    damcgee Formula 3

    Feb 23, 2003
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    Mobile, AL
    #6 damcgee, Jan 28, 2005

    You don't hear this often !
     
  7. Dino Martini

    Dino Martini F1 Rookie

    Dec 21, 2004
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    Calgary Alberta
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    #7 Dino Martini, Jan 28, 2005
    Love the new Ford GT. Looks great, goes like stink. I was watching top gear when they reviewed the car and was druling
     
  8. Scotty

    Scotty F1 World Champ
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    #8 Scotty, Jan 28, 2005
    Thanks for the great analysis. Be interesting to know if the performance makes you forget everything else.
     
  9. bostonmini

    bostonmini Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2003
    1,890
    #9 bostonmini, Jan 29, 2005
    which dealership? and im not surprised, honestly...they want to make money on this car, if they can...so they cut some corners..like with the engine!!! same as any other... BUt it is sexy looking, and I agree, black with silver stripes! (or no stripe)!!!
     
  10. Bill Sawyer

    Bill Sawyer Formula 3

    Feb 26, 2002
    2,108
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    #10 Bill Sawyer, Jan 29, 2005
    The one design feature I absolutely hate on the new GT is the way the side scoop is not part of the bodywork. It's actually a separate piece and looks horrible.
     
  11. scycle2020

    scycle2020 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2004
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    #11 scycle2020, Jan 29, 2005
    greata review...just from pic, i dont like the interior and have heard from some object aut mag reviews that the seats didnt offer great support...they certainly dont look right..i also read about the doors and the possiblity of hit ting your self on the head.....and thecar certainly does have a lot of body panel, not a smooth flowing design, but a different look for sure......as far as driving dynamics, the main complaint i have read about is the disappointing engine and exhaust note, esp. compared to a ferrari....as you said no car is perfect and no car has ever had this much hype so long before it is readily avaible....i will wait until the hype dies and cars become more available and see how much they depreciate...i am personally like normally aspirated engines more than blown engines....more invloving getting the revs high and shifting like a mad man.....
     
  12. G-force

    G-force F1 Rookie

    Aug 4, 2002
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    #12 G-force, Jan 29, 2005
    Doody

    I've never been a fan of "stand still" evaluations... which to me equates to esthetics. Esthetics would be low on my priority list when buying a "performance" vehicle.

    We need to drive the car.......
     
  13. bobafett

    bobafett F1 Veteran

    Sep 28, 2002
    9,193
    #13 bobafett, Jan 29, 2005
    Aesthetics aren't a zero-priority item and build quality should not be overlooked.

    If you wanted a fast car that looked like ass, why not buy a hotrod or build something in a toyota corolla body?

    The car should kick some ass, yes, but that doesn't mean it has to look bad.

    And where did Ford spend the 150k anyways?

    --Dan
     
  14. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #14 Napolis, Jan 29, 2005
    280K sale at BJ just crossed. 3 million for olds concept car from the 50ies. kewl
     
  15. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
    2,642
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    #15 Hubert, Jan 29, 2005
    It's not a matter of aesthetics it’s a matter of appointments. Take the 360CS - the interior has the aesthetic equivalent of an empty can of pork & beans, but it's appointed adequately and therefore appeals to the eye - simple, functional and minimal. The problem that the z06 has sounds like the same problem the GT will have: an ill appointed, poorly planned interior that’s more pomp than it is useful. I guess I’ll just trim the GT like the z06 – throw out the seats, steering wheel, shift knob and the dash/radio console. Then again, all this hoopla over street cars gets old; no matter how fast, how powerful or how handsome, it'll still get its doors blown off by a little DSR racecar.
     
  16. GhostRider

    GhostRider Formula Junior

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    #16 GhostRider, Jan 29, 2005
    To me an exotic car is still something that looks good, goes fast, and handles well. If you happen to be comfortable, consider it a bonus, because that's not the point.
     
  17. racerx

    racerx Guest

    Nov 23, 2003
    882
    #17 racerx, Jan 29, 2005
    i thought it was 270. The bidding war for that olds was fun to watch as were some others. The boss 429 was cool.
     
  18. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #18 Napolis, Jan 29, 2005
    270+ BJ % about 280K
     
  19. iceburns288

    iceburns288 Formula 3

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    #19 iceburns288, Jan 29, 2005
    Well, uncomfortable to the point of stupid. Like, say, a bench seat in a 1.0g-capable car. Or switches that fall off when you try them.

    Or getting decapitated by your door!
     
  20. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    #20 Auraraptor, Jan 29, 2005
    If the switches suck really bad in 2/3 years when I get on I will have custom METAL ones made. The seat looked 'respectable' on the original concept but seems to have gotten more and more ugly and cheap as production neared.
     
  21. bobafett

    bobafett F1 Veteran

    Sep 28, 2002
    9,193
    #21 bobafett, Jan 29, 2005
    I thought percentage was higher? Also, don't forget there's a seller's premium too, so I think the fair mkt value should be qualified as whatever the bid is, no?

    --Dan
     
  22. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    #22 Napolis, Jan 30, 2005
    Fair market is what the guy paid. North of 270. That said I think they trade today at about 230K and auction fever set in as it did for many cars sold there.
     
  23. racerx

    racerx Guest

    Nov 23, 2003
    882
    #23 racerx, Jan 30, 2005
    BJ % = 8 for buyer and seller

    270 + 23.6 = 293.6 + another 23.6 from the seller and that is why Craig has such a smile on his face as the tally went sky high

    His take on the olds prototype 240K + 240K= 480K on 1 car, that'll buy a few tents

    The 01 360 spyder went at 166K. is that a little low or just about right
     
  24. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
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    #24 whart, Jan 30, 2005
    Look at it this way, Dood. If you can get one at sticker, particularly in black or another desirable color, you can probably clean up the short-comings in the interior without alot of dough. Remember, the Muira at its time, while stunning, also had some fit and finish issues- according to an old Car Magazine review, many British buyers took them to their Rolls outfitters to have the interiors redone properly!
    So, for the cost of 5-10k maybe, you could replace seats, clean up the dash and replace the finky switch hardware; i would buy one in a heart-beat at sticker in the right color, too.
    Out of curiousity, what sayeth Napolis on the body sheetmetal of his?
     
  25. Viper 10

    Viper 10 Formula Junior

    Nov 16, 2003
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    Brad Chang
    #25 Viper 10, Jan 30, 2005
    D:

    Thanks for the review on the GT. I have always had a concern about the practicality of this car from the very begining (don't choke on the fact that I drive a Viper as a daily driver). If I were ever to buy such a car, I would personall plan on driving it as much as possible. That being said, Ford was very stupid in their decision to go with the roof cut doors. The main reason is that you now need over twice the amount of area to open the door enough to get out of the car. In a traditional parking space it would be impossible to egress from the vehicle. Being 6'2" (and long in the torso) I know that I won't ever be able to fit in this car with a helmet... so where is the Gurney bubble option?

    Secondly, the fact that Ford believes that this vehicle is worth $140k plus the exorbatent mark up is truly amazing (they are going for over $300k in Southern Cal). IMO this car is not worth any more than $100k (especially with the same supercharged engine that will be in Shelby's Cobra Mustang later this spring). Maybe if Ford were to put the V-10 into it and campaign the car at Le Mans, would it be worthy of the higher price (without the wicked mark up). The only thing that dictates this price are the limited production numbers (which are the same as Dodge's newtered Vipers) and the fact that it is the first rear engined horse produced in many decades by a mainstream American manufacturer.

    To me this says that Ford wanted these cars in the hands of collectors and not the guys who drive their cars and track them. That's very sad considering the heritage of the GT-40. I would rather wait for Shelby to roll out the GR-1.

    Brad
     
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