Ford's unfair advantage at LeMans '67

Glancing back through this interesting thread, I see a slight "oops" that should be corrected. The Gurney/Foyt Mk.IV didn't win the '67 LeMans race by 135 miles, it won by about 32 miles. The winning average speed is given as 135 mph.

James, I love your comment about Marlboro/F1 vs. LeMans!

Here is a pic of the crew making a "hinge" on James' Mk. IV after the tail blew off, from Friedman's "Shelby GT40" book.

 

Jeff
You are quite right. 2.3 seconds a lap for 24 hours equaled about 32 miles. The pace that year was very fast. My car which spent over an hour in the pits still covered more distance that the winner the previous year! I do think that inspite of what we all look at in the Mags, (Numbers) it's more important to: (As Leo Levine wrote) to FEEL "The sound and the fury, the speed and the drama, they are something numbers can never replace."

 

I was aware that the MKI of 68 and 69 had the same chassis number, however since I build small scale replicas for a living I always mistakenly refer to them as seperate cars since there were some significant body work changes to the rear bonnet and other small differneces. Specifically the 69 is slightly wider and more rounded and the 68 had a slight lip around the wheelwell. Nonetheless I am a big fan the the GT40's and all the variants

Concerning the car that you own, woould that be the yellow #2 car? I have some nice 1/24 scale versions of that model as it finished LM in '67.
I'll attempt to uplaod a photo but I've never tried that in this forum. So here it goes.

Ed

 

Spectacular model Ed. Other pics on how the tape became necessary.
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taping
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Ed
That's my car J6. Fantastic job. One minor detail. The red "Fire Dots" are slightly wrong. The colored dots let the Marshal's know what material the body of the cars were in case of fire as different materials burn differently. Red is for fiberglass, yellow is for alum. You're missing the red fire dots on the nose and tail. On the nose they are under the mirrors and on the tail I'll post a pic tomorrow. As for the roof as its alum they shouldn't be there as it's painted yellow. BUT Shelby made a mistake and put them on in red. When the officials pointed out the mistake, Max Kelly wiped them with a gasoline soaked rag which didn't remove the fully but turned them orange.
Do you have the front brake ducts in the panel behind the rad rather than in the nose as the H&M J7 and J8?

 

One other tiny detail. The rear # light was angled 45 degs towards the #2 so it didn't shine into the rt. hand mirror. I only mention these things as interesting details. Your model is excellent!

 

Thanks Napolis,
The red dots are under the mirrors, but from this angle its hard to see. I have another pic from the side that shoes them better. I'll post that one later. I know they should also be on the bonnet above the rear tires. This one was built by a company called LeMans Miniatures of France. There are a few other very minor details that are not exact but overall they did a very nice job. The number lights on the door are too far forward and a little high. They should be just at the rim of the roundel. When I do the builds I try to get everything as accurate as possible. Interesting about the roof dots. I never knew what they were for.

I'll have to check the brake ducts, I don't have one in front of me. But that is exactly the kind of something that I would want to know.

If you happen to notice anything else please let me know. I have all of the usual GT40 books out there but still its hard to get some real good reference of that time. I am currently converting a 24th scale Fujimi MKII to the MKIIB #57 Buckman/Hawkins light blue car. Another hard one to get pics of. As a modeler I need unusual angles of things nobody cared to take a picture of. On that car I need a pic of the rear bracing for the spare tire.

Thanks again for the info, I thought you might enjoy the model.

Ed

 

That model has such bella details throughout that were Jame's nuances added - it would be "ne plus ultra."

 

Ed
The two Shelby cars also had 2 rivets in front of the orange roof fire dots riveting the roof to the roll bar. The H&M cars didn't.
Best

 

Ed (Model Builder) - I have some original photographs of GT40s at Daytona (circa 1966-71). If interested in copies, please e-mail me.

[email protected]

Jim S.

 

This is an interesting thread; can I chip in with a few points for discussion?

The P4 was an 'evolutionary' design from a line going back to the 196SP of 1961, and the Ford GT40 Mk I & II were also 'evolutionary' from the Lola of 1963; but the Mk IV was 'revolutionary', a big leap forward with better aerodynamics and chassis than the P4 as well as more power.

In 1966 Ferrari were in chaos; the P3 used a non-Ferrari gearbox, for much of the season they only had one P3 racing, they missed Daytona and only had three works cars at Le Mans compared to four or five in previous years. They were also constrained by finances; the F1 car had a modified 1965 P2 engine, only one F1 car was ready for the start of the GP season (the second was not properly tested until after the Belgian GP) so they used the Tasman V6 car which was actually faster on most cicuits, and they may have been dependent on sponsorship money from Dragoni and his associates, else why let Surtees go?

At Daytona '67 Ford were surprised by the speed of the P4's, apart from their own gearbox troubles, so pushed rapidly ahead with turning the experimental J-car into a racer; maybe they'd been counting on running the Mk II's for more of the season.

Ferrari dropped out of sports cars for 1968 in protest at the CSI changing the rules without reference to the manufacturers, which was widely thought to be a French ploy to favour Matra and Alpine with their new 3-litre cars. Ford might have stayed in as well if it hadn't been for that.

Ferrari came back in 1969 and their 312P was quicker than the GT40's and probably quicker than the Porsche 908's, but unreliable.

From 1964 to 1967 a GT40 Mk I never finished at Le Mans; after Le Mans 1967 Ford released lots of special parts that had been withheld for fear of embarassing the works cars, such as the Gurney-Weslake 5-litre heads, so the 1968 and 1969 cars were a different animal to 1966 and 1967- still heavy and slower than the Porsche 907s and 908s but more reliable. 1075 won Le Mans in 1969 because its brakes lasted better than Hermann's 908.

Ferrari's financial crisis reached its peak in 1969 (leading to the Fiat takeover). They had planned to exploit the Group 5 loophole like Porsche but couldn't build the 25 512S cars until the end of the year and so were always a year behind Porsche in development; the 1970 car was less developed than the 917, and the 512M caught up in speed, but Ferrari decided to use 1971 to get ready for the end of the 5-litre cars in 1972 by developing the 312PB. Le Mans was always slightly less of a priority than winning the sports car World Championship, so getting beaten in both by Matra in 1973 was what caused their final pull-out.

And the most advanced and fastest car of 1967, with its composite chassis and aerodynamics years ahead of its time, was of course the Chaparral 2F!

Paul M

 

Paul
You're right about the Chaparral. I had the honor of running with them and Jim Hall at the Goodwood Festival of Speed in 98. (I was there in my MK-IV)
If the Chaparral's had had a more reliable transmittion they would have ruled.
Best

 

And, when the Ford GT comes out it will again trounce Ferrari at the track.

 

Jim,

When you were at Goodwood when the Chaparrals were there, that must have been the year of the Rains and the Great Hailstorm, the last year without shelters in the paddock, the year of all the Ferraris (including P3/4s 0844, 0850 and 0854) and the Roman arch in front of the house - that was 1997. I remember how the snowmobile engine in the 2J broke after the first day, just like it used to in the Can-Am races!

I was looking at my photos again (I live near Goodwood and have been to almost every day of every Festival) and was struck by how those huge anodised wheel spinners on your Mk IV look purple when in the light but blue when they're not. On Ed's model the wing mirrors are a dark colour which is how they look in pictures from Le Mans '67, but yours looked to be chrome at Goodwood.

Looking back at a report of Le Mans '67, it said your car had been delayed by clutch trouble and dropped behind the three surviving P4s in the early hours of Sunday, before the tail blew off.

Hope to see you at Goodwood again

Regards
Paul M

 

Jim,

When you were at Goodwood when the Chaparrals were there, that must have been the year of the Rains and the Great Hailstorm, the last year without shelters in the paddock, the year of all the Ferraris (including P3/4s 0844, 0850 and 0854) and the Roman arch in front of the house - that was 1997. I remember how the snowmobile engine in the 2J broke after the first day, just like it used to in the Can-Am races!

I was looking at my photos again (I live near Goodwood and have been to almost every day of every Festival) and was struck by how those huge anodised wheel spinners on your Mk IV look purple when in the light but blue when they're not. On Ed's model the wing mirrors are a dark colour which is how they look in pictures from Le Mans '67, but yours looked to be chrome at Goodwood.

Looking back at a report of Le Mans '67, it said your car had been delayed by clutch trouble and dropped behind the three surviving P4s in the early hours of Sunday, before the tail blew off.

Hope to see you at Goodwood again

Regards
Paul M

 

Napolis
With you knowlege on Mark IV's, I have a question for you.
What do you think of the new Ford GT?
I would be interested in hearing your opinion.

 

This thread is very interesting, I just want to make one comment:

Ford really had an unfair advantadge: they had more money and industrial resources than Ferrari.

But the GT40 was a lot faster, of course.

 

I'm very impressed with the Ford GT. It's a lot of car for 139.9K. I know the designer, chief engineer, and the head of the Ford GT program. They are real car guys.
The performance speaks for itself. I think the next generation Ford Gt will be even more exciting.

 

Le Mans 1967.... but the image is of course from the previous year...

 

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