Formula 1 engine heritage claim

Don't know about that Konrad, but I've read somewhere that the Quattrovalvole technology (4 valve head in italian) brought to our Mondials from 1982 onwards, was directly derived from F1.

Kind regards,

Nuno.

 

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The Mondial-t engine/transmission T-shaped layout is borrowed from Formula One.

Don't know anything about the 1964, F205/B.

 

Sorry Guys but Lotus were doing 4 valve heads on a road car in 1974 long before Ferrari ever did.
There were 4 valve heads on aircraft engines back in the 1930s

 

V8 + flat plane crankshaft + dual overhead camshafts on each cylinder head = those are all brothers even at different displacements

 

Most of the Ferrari v6/v8 (until the 430) were derived from the 'dino' v6, which saw f2 and then f1 use in the 156f1 sharknose. I didn't realize it, but the v12's used in the 456,550, and 575 were based on the 'dino' as well. Then everything switched to the maserati style v8 add they were engineered for larger sizes and better emissions.

Ferrari Dino engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Hi Bell,

I didn't know that. Always learning!

I wasn't however referring to who was the first car maker to implement the 4 valve per cylinder head in a production car. I believe Ferrari's Quattrovalvole technology was directly derived from their F1 program at the time, instead of being a technology born in a laboratory or something they learned and/or improved based on previous road cars/engines they made.

Kindest regards,

Nuno.

 

The Peugeot that won the 1913 Indy 500 had 4 valves per cylinder head.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Henry_(engineer)

 

hmmmm.... or from the 1912 Peugeot L76 GrandPrix car (hemi heads with 4 valves and DOHC)?

 

Blimey! That's ancient technology!

our P 1007 (which is undergoing atransformation at the moment) uses technology that is over a 100 years old and it is still not fast haha Sorry I couldn't resist

Btw Peugeot was also the first with the Turbo Diesel. They can make nifty stuff if they want to! but not lately I'm afraid..
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There you go chaps, nothing is ever really new ;-)
All that matters to me though is that Lotus beat Ferrari to it by 9years ha ha.

 

Pete,

As already written on this very forum in 2009, the wikipedia article on the Dino engine takes some "short cuts", let's say, and should perhaps be rewritten: see the following thread, in particular post #4 by "DinoLasse"

The Ferarri Dino series of engines, not just V6 but V8 and V12 too? - FerrariChat.com



Rgds

 

Thanks for the link!

Were the v8's not related to the Jano designed Lancia/Ferrari D50 v8's used in the '50's? Of course, he was dead by the time the v8 was used in a road car, but much as the Dino v6 was based on his racing motors, was the v8 not based on the early f1 and '60's SP v8 car motors that he designed?

Maybe they should more correctly be referred to as 'Jano' v6 and v8's...

 

As said by others, well...
The Ferrari V8 that appeared in 1973 is a four camshaft, flat plane crank 90° V-8: they are more or less all the same, it is a configuration that does not allow for much creativity.
Look at a Cosworth DFV for instance, and compare it to the QV engine...

It is of some interest to note that when Ferrari designed the 3 litre V8, they used the Daytona V-12 liners, pistons and rods (if my failing memory, etc...) but only eight instead of twelve, of course. This explains that the V8 did not use "all the capacity" available to be a true 3 litre, but left about 70 cm3 unused, as it is in fact a 2925 cm3 engine.
In so doing, they did not have to order new liners, pistons and rods, but took some already existing parts...

Rgds

 

The "pent roof" combustion chamber design was a Cosworth (Lotus) development. That bit of engineering was the real genius in the application of 4 valve cylinders. They failed to either patent it or register the name so the design was widely copied and Honda Motorcycles registered the name in the 80's to try and create the impression it was their invention.

4 valve use, as noted, dates back to very early in the 1900's and it is suspected to be of French origin. Most 4 valve designs prior to the pent roof suffered from poor chamber designs and the Rolls aviation motors chief among them in that sense.

If there is a single engine that most resembles a Ferrari QV, it is in my opinion a DFV.

 

The 1967 330 P4 mechanical fuel injection was the innovation leading to it being used in the 1980 308s.

 

And the turbo in the 1980 126 CK led to its use in the 1982 208 turbo.

 

I believe those had Lucas injection which is vastly different from Bosch CIS.

US emission controls led to the need to go to fuel injection. Nothing else. It would have eventually been adopted but Ferrari knew the then available systems did not meet their needs in any way but emission homologation. When they used fuel injection as a matter of choice it was electronic, timed, port injection.

 

No argument there. It was the innovation from GS to GT cars that this was a reference to. Part of Ferrari's in house learning curve.

 

Just as the dry sump of that 126 CK was later used in the F40.

 

Ferrari's advertising department, like all advertising ( or politicians ) takes great liberties with reality.

You know, sort of like calling that witches brew they pour in F1 fuel tanks "gasoline" ( in any other race series it would be classified as "fuel", the same designation alcohol or nitro blends gets ) or Honda taking credit for the pent roof.

 

Lol.

 

Or the 275 long nose comp cars or the 275 4 cam or the Daytona or the Euro version 308 not to mention a whole litany of race cars all of which predate the 126. The dry sump of the 126 CK was by that time no innovation despite the Ferrari PR teams protestations to the contrary.

 

Interesting

 

Well that all sounds good but the most interesting thing about them is how dissimilar they are.

More Ferrari PR department work.

Interesting how they credit some of the information as being from Merrit and Fitzgerald but do not say what. Raw specifications I suspect. The conclusions have to have come from Ferrari because anyone familiar with all the motors listed would get a good laugh.

Ford, Chrysler, Chevrolet, Buick, Olds, and Pontiac have all used on occasion the same bore and stroke numbers for totally different motors with the same raw material, same valve train design. Only a PR guy would use that to create a link between engine designs.

PR departments thankfully do not write history books. Do not look to them for it. They are selling cars and will say anything to achieve that end.