FORMULA 1 ETIHAD AIRWAYS ABU DHABI GRAND PRIX 2022....RACE.... ▄▀▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▄▀▄▀▄▀ | Page 13 | FerrariChat

FORMULA 1 ETIHAD AIRWAYS ABU DHABI GRAND PRIX 2022....RACE.... ▄▀▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▄▀▄▀▄▀

Discussion in 'F1' started by jgonzalesm6, Nov 20, 2022.

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  1. USMCS6

    USMCS6 Formula 3
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    Elliot
    We all talk about Ferrari turning the PU down. Any of the data guys actually able to plot that over like conditions from the early races to the later?
     
  2. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    When was the last time Lewis had a DNF-mechanical? Malaysia 2016?
     
  3. subirg

    subirg F1 Rookie

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    Boring race but nice to see Leclerc secure 2nd place. Perez will be mighty miffed. But it’s his own fault for not being good enough. No point blaming max who had another thoroughly boring Sunday afternoon drive to the shops.

    I fear next year could be even worse. The aero goat, Newey is untouchable. Ferrari and Merc will have a very depressing winter.
     
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  4. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Looking at the best like for like data we can use right now, bahrain vs Abu dhabi, all in quali:

    Speed trap in Bahrain S1 (very early) Ferrari is ahead of Red Bull with 1.2 kph advantage
    Top speed Red Bull ahead 8kph (but at this point aero efficiency and downforce setup makes a far larger difference than outright power)

    Speed trap Abu Dhabi, Red bull ahead by 0.7 kph on the early speed trap (again, this is a better measure of outright power)
    Top Speed Red Bull (after Williams) 331.5 vs 325.7 for Ferrari, so no real difference there vs Ferrari over the year.

    I picked a random track post Austria and before Japan, as Ferrari still had a chance to win the title:

    Spa:

    Speed trap S2 and S3, both early:
    S2 Red Bull massively down by 4.3 kph
    S3 Ferrari just ahead at 0.1kph

    Top Speed in Sector 1:
    Ferrari only 0.6 behind Red Bull in S1 (342.8 vs 342.2)
    Ferrari at Speed trap 313.0 vs Red Bull 312.1)

    Of course this is all at quali. Race has too many variables for starters (DRS in a fast run vs tyre management mode makes a huge difference), engine modes and whatnot.

    I do think Ferrari turned down their engines somewhat but it's not a huge amount. Their biggest culprit has been tyre management post TD39. Ferrari wasn't really competitive post TD39 so turning down the engines when you're not racing for a win anymore makes sense. We saw this in Austin extremely clearly that Leclerc was capable of sticking with Verstappen, right until the tyres hit the cliff and the moment that happened, it was game over.

    After Austria (when Ferrari didn't turn down the engines yet) we where at Paul Ricard and I don't get much indication that the engine was turned down that much there, either.

    Quali Sector KPH for Paul Ricard;

    Red Bull ahead by 0.7 in S1
    RB ahead by 2.3kph in S2
    Top Speed RB ahead by 6.3

    Biggest issues for Ferrari that lead to the title loss:

    Pitwall
    TD39
    Reliability
    Driver errors

    In that order.

    The pitwall was a lot of unforced errors, dumb basic mistakes that led to huge point swings. TD39 we can send a thank you note to Mercedes for that one. Reliability of course, an undeniable issue. We haven't seen many issues but is it do with the valve upgrade and new turbo? Not only haven't we seen issues on the Ferrari for a while, same goes for Ferrari engined cars.

    Forget Imola as a driver error, it wasn't extremely costly. France was a big one. 25 very expensive points. Max made 2 errors this season, too, but recovered from both. Sure, both resulted in a win (1 was a gift from Ferrari, but it would've been a completely recovered to P2 if it wasn't for Ferrari's engine ****ting the bed).

    The biggest issue is that Ferrari seems complacent with where they are. Celebrate a few wins, all is good for Ferrari it seems. The lack of team orders showed enough. The higher ups seem to not have the winning mentality anymore. So long they keep binotto and the idiots on the pitwall, that will be my opinion on that. I've seen enough and sadly, unless they build a genuine rocket ship that's at least half a second clear of the rest of the field, neither Leclerc or Sainz will ever win a title with Ferrari at this rate.
     
  5. Jeronimo GTO

    Jeronimo GTO Formula 3

    May 15, 2010
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    Austria 2018
     
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  6. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Perez just did not get much 'help' from the 'team' that was so astonished last week with Max' behavior..............

    Verstappen: Holding up Leclerc in Abu Dhabi not a nice way to end F1 season
    Max Verstappen was glad he didn't receive a call to hold up Charles Leclerc for Sergio Perez as "it wouldn't be the nicest way" to end the Formula 1 season.

    By: Haydn Cobb
    Co-author: Alex Kalinauckas
    Nov 20, 2022, 6:30 PM
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    The F1 world champion comfortably charged to his record-extending 15th victory of the season in the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, as Leclerc beat Perez to second place and with it the runner-up spot in the final drivers' standings.

    With Perez hunting down Leclerc in the closing laps, Verstappen said he didn't get an order from Red Bull to help his teammate, which could have been an option, as the Dutch driver might have been able to ease his pace to back Leclerc into Perez's reach.

    Fresh from the team orders row that clouded Red Bull's Brazilian GP, when Verstappen ignored a call to let Perez overtake him on the final lap to gain a position, the two-time F1 world champion felt another team orders call would've put a dampener on the end of their season.

    "No, there was not, but also that is quite a tricky call to make," Verstappen said about a call to help Perez in the final stint.

    "You also don't want to end up… you can possibly block, but is that fair racing? I think it wouldn't be the nicest way to go out of the championship and out of the season like that.


    Max Verstappen, Red Bull Racing RB18, Sergio Perez, Red Bull Racing RB18, Charles Leclerc, Ferrari F1-75, Lando Norris, McLaren MCL36

    "It looked like Checo was catching him enough to try and actually get a move but then he lost quite a bit of time in a fuss between Pierre and Alex, he lost quite a bit of time with that, because I was watching that on the screen."

    Verstappen did concede both he and Perez could've pushed harder during the middle phase of the race to extend the gap over Leclerc, but Red Bull had been worried about tyre life over the course of the stint.

    "That second stint, because the deg was quite high on the medium, in hindsight we, as a team, could've pushed a bit more on that middle stint for Checo, but that is always easy to say afterwards," he added.

    "At the time we thought that we had to be careful on the tyres. We've had a lot of great weekends but even on great weekends there are always things that you can learn."
     
  7. USMCS6

    USMCS6 Formula 3
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    Thank you. Very straightforward observation. I assume they backed off a bit, but that TD really messed it up. Hopefully they can mitigate it over the break.
    I was frustrated, and am still to a degree, but I think Ferrari did ok against RB. Definitely need to clean up the pit wall but they got it right today. Charles drove an amazing race today to make those tires live. He had to be right every time. I think Carlos is really honing his craft as well. Forza Ferrari.
     
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  8. kandi

    kandi Formula 3

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    Not exactly best aero overall, but RedBull adjusted their aero towards DRS overtaking scheme, that plays biggest role right now in F1.
    Their car gains quickly with DRS over other cars, and usually defends well against opponents using DRS.

    I cannot blame Ferrari team for one thing - that they wanted to have best balanced car, regardless DRS, and since the beginning of that season they were talking about their and RedBull's car as they are 'quite different concepts'.
     
  9. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    Well I guess 2nd and 4th is considered a race win by Ferrari standards. Yes we also hung on to 2nd in the WDC for Charles...but Sainz is way below where he should have been. He is just not top tier...not as fast as Russell or Hamilton or Perez and maybe even Norris. For once it appears that Binotto showed some smarts by keeping his mouth shut. So who is not coming back...Vettel, Ricardo, Latifi, Schumacher...Bottas should also leave voluntarily. As for next season's cars, if nothing is allowed to change (because of budget caps or rules) then why bother even having a next season? The off season is getting shorter and shorter, we really need a return to open testing. Poorly developed cars don't add up to good racing.
     
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  10. lagunacc

    lagunacc F1 Rookie
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  11. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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  12. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    What the heck is wrong with HAAS. End of the year and his last year in F1.....let him do donuts. I loved his sarcasm on team radio.

    Mick attempting to do donuts, gets scolded immediately by Haas

     
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  13. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    It's not allowed, is it ?
     
  14. ferrariwithsnowtires

    ferrariwithsnowtires Formula Junior

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    Well done Charles for securing second in the drivers' championship

    Nice race to cap the Powered by Honda Championship season with P1, 3, 11 and 14

    Already looking forward to next season sans the FTX liveries
     
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  15. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes it is. Abu Dhabi has a certain section of where to do donuts.

    I don't believe Mick did it in the "donut section."

    The donut section is right in front of the pits.
     
  16. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    With all the criticism of Ferrari's season I've seen above, we must remember that they did get 2nd in both the Driver's and Constructor's Championships, and after the disappointments of 2021 and (particularly) 2020, that's not too shabby. In my opinion, even if they had done everything right (no strategy goofs, no driver errors, no mechanical DNFs), that is probably where they still would have wound up. Certainly a lot closer to Max and Red Bull, but almost certainly not able to catch them. So I think some positive words should be in order.

    As for 2023 I have to expect that Mercedes will figure out what they did wrong and come back with a vengeance. Their late-season improvement shows they are headed in that direction. So unless Ferrari figures out quickly what they need to do, I think it is likely that they will fall back to third place. And who knows what rabbits any of the midfield runners might pull out of their hats.
     
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  17. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Yes today they must be commended, I still have no idea how they managed to go this long with their tyres, especially given how bad they where friday and saturday...or maybe Ferrari fixed it for FP3 and Lec radio'd it to throw RB off? If so that worked a charm!
     
  18. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I was under the impression that it was banned.
     
  19. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    It is banned BUT not at Abu Dhabi.
     
  20. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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  21. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I don't think Mick Schumacher cared much about possible grid penalty or points on his license, but incurring the wrath of Uncle Steiner is something else !!!
     
  22. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Vegas baby
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  23. PureEuroM3

    PureEuroM3 F1 Veteran
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    Funny enough I saw the opposite. They told him rather bluntly, but not rude, to stop.

    Mick responded with a passive aggressive / sarcastic response.

    Don't find anything wrong with the team telling him not to do donuts. More surprised at the negative reactions to haas for doing it.

    I'm all for donuts but seriously he really didn't do much this year.
     
  24. lagunacc

    lagunacc F1 Rookie
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    Synchronized donuts

     
  25. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I thought doughnuts were done in celebration.

    What had Mick Schumacher to celebrate ?
     
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