FORMULA 1 GRAND PRIX DE MONACO 2019: QUALIFYING *** SPOILERS *** | Page 13 | FerrariChat

FORMULA 1 GRAND PRIX DE MONACO 2019: QUALIFYING *** SPOILERS ***

Discussion in 'F1' started by SPEEDCORE, May 25, 2019.

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  1. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
    25,605

    It's up to you if you explain Mercedes success with a conspiracy theory. I can't help there.

    As for Mercedes having frogmarched the other teams against their wishes in a formula they didn't wish, I am flabberghasted.

    It was a common decision after consultation with the main engine suppliers, and all agreed the terms.

    I don't think they signed a text wearing a blindfold not knowing what they were entering; in fact Renault and Honda were very enthusiastic.
     
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  2. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Dec 28, 2005
    12,067
    I don't think that anyone would accuse Adrian Newey of incompetence.
     
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  3. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    41,446
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    I don't really care if you don't believe it. It's pretty clear to me. Whenever Mercedes complains about something, there will be a fix.

    It's so damn obvious. And I re-iterate again with the tyres. It's clear as rain that Pirelli has favoured Mercedes. If I can see it from a mile of, and even Adrian Newey has commented on it now. He's not ever the type to have complained about such things.

    indeed. No words really.
     
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  4. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    To a certain extent, it was healthier when there was choice of tyre suppliers (Michelin, Bridgestone, Goodyear or Pirelli) because such excuse didn't exist.

    Now it's too easy to accuse the specs tyre supplier of favouritism towards the leading team.

    We already know that at Red Bull they think they should have the best engine too: Mercedes.

    There is no way of pleasing everybody ...
     
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  5. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,500
    #305 DeSoto, May 26, 2019
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
    Don´t you remember that Bridgestone customers complained about some preference towards Ferrari, the issue with the oversized Michelins, the 2005 tyre rule change to screw Bridgestone, the Indianapolis faux pas...? I´d say that multiple tyre manufacturers make for multiple ways of screwing a championship. And it was expensive.

    But we´ve had too much **** with Pirelli all these years: tyres that blew, delamination, mid season design changes, arbitrary selection of compounds and the infamous "secret" test. Some of that **** was because some teams lobbied, but I think most was on Pirellí´s own initiative: tyres destroyed after a few laps in some cars and drivers moaning in the radio is not a great publicity. Also FIA always has been too much tolerant with their failures and let them make changes on the go despite it altered the championship outcome.

    So far, surprisingly, there has not been much noise about it. Probably it was because Red Bull and Mercedes had similar interests so Ferrari was alone. But the fact that Adrian Newey is starting to moan, makes me think that the **** is about to hit the fan. Hopefully.
     
  6. kandi

    kandi Formula 3

    Jun 27, 2014
    1,656
    I beg to disagree ;p
     
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  7. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    7,751
    Tropical
    Also said ''we are getting better!'' :D:eek::rolleyes:
     
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  8. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
    25,605

    Yes, I remember it well. Each supplier has a few client teams, plus a "factory supported" team that had special compound.
    That what was wrong; there were Bridgestone tyres, and "Special Ferrari" Bridgestone tyres, and the same for Michelin, etc ...
    The FIA should have insisted in each supplier giving parity to all their clients.
    They didn't and instead opted to impose a single supplier. That lowered the cost, guarantied revenue for whoever won the bid, and in theory gave parity.
    Now we see the other size of the coin. If a new tyre suits better a team than the others, Pirelli is accused of favouritism.

    I am not defending Pirelli one bit, but they were asked to supply tyres of a quality that delaminated, blew, worn quickly, etc ... to add spice to the races.¨
    "Pirelli does exactly what we asked for." claimed Bernie, absolutely opposed to Michelin that wanted to imposed rigourous standards in tyre manufacture.
    Michelin's opinion was that bringing tyres of inferior quality in motor racing wouldn't enhance the company's reputation.
    Pirelli didn't care, so they observed their brief.

    The trouble with F1 rules is that they are very restrictive in some areas, and very liberal on others.
     
  9. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,500
    Pirelli was asked to make tyres that didn´t last the whole race, not that blew. Also the cars supposedly had to adapt to the standard tyres, not the other way around. We all know who we´re talking about. Ferrari made a few timid complains, Toto Wolff and Christian Horner called them sore loosers and the issue was thrown under the carpet. Now Adrian Newey is complaining too... but hey, too late, he´s now in the sore loosers wagon.
     
  10. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
    25,605
    There were issues with the tyres mostly because some operating directives were not respected:
    - mileage
    - temperature
    - pressure.
    Mercedes had several spectacular failures because it wasn't respecting the limits set, mostly excessive low pressure.
     
  11. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,500
    Nope.

    Then why did they change the tyre carcass mid season in 2013? Why did they just told them: "hey, STFU, we won´t change the tyres, respect the limits"? Actually, the tyres started to blow up after they changed them to please Red Bull and Mercedes, and that´s what forced them to change the carcass too.

    Bastards, that championship was rigged... But money talks.
     
    fil likes this.
  12. 635CSI

    635CSI F1 Rookie

    Jun 26, 2013
    3,001
    London UK
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    Graham
    PSA has been the recipintant of so much (border line illegal) French government subsidy (and under corrupt management) it could swallow anybody.
    Yet still make crap cars.
     
  13. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 31, 2016
    20,850
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
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    Joe R Gonzales
    So we're dealing in 2019 with a car under Arrivabene's rule which brings me to the NEW tires for 2019. Yes, we tested them in Barcelona for 2019 under those climate conditions.

    Binotto explains: "In recent years, we have had no problem getting the tires in their working window. Once they were in, we had to cool them. Today we do the opposite. They do not heat up so easily, and we have to heat the tire when they're in the window. "

    Red Bull chief technology officer Adrian Newey says the same thing: "The working window has shifted upwards. That played Mercedes perfectly in the cards. It was bad for us because we always kept the tires at the bottom of the window. That's why they've cut down less on us than on others. "A Mercedes engineer admits:" The new tires have solved our biggest problem without us having to do much for it. "However, he makes one caveat:" After our bankruptcy in 2015 In Singapore, we worked hard on this issue and changed eight or nine things on the car that helped us get a grip on the overheating of the tires. "

    The big question: Can Red Bull and Ferrari still counter-steer? Binotto does not think he has to turn the whole car upside down because of the tire issue. "There are tools that can help regardless of the concept. For example, more downforce, better use of the braking heat, the tuning of the suspension. "Adrian Newey looks rather black there:" That will be difficult. The whole concept of the car is designed so that the tires do not get too hot. It is always difficult to break out of a concept. "


    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/newey-regeln-2021-mercedes/&prev=search
     
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  14. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
    25,605


    Almost every carmaker on both sides of the Atlantic has received subsidies at one moment or another, so there is no stigma attached to it.

    PSA isn't alone, neither Ford, nor GM would still be alive if they hadn't been bailed out by the US government.

    I read today that PSA Peugeot could be interested in loss-making Jaguar-Land Rover instead.

    Then, following the Goshn affair, Renault could de-merge from its alliance with Nissan-Mitsubishi, and then buy Fiat-Chrysler Automobiles.
     
  15. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Jul 1, 2013
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    Menlo Park, CA
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    Paul Chua
    The time for scalpels is over, a big sledgehammer is in order.

    Ferrari is broken. When a soda company is consistently better, what more can be said?

    The fans and now the many thousands of owners will not tolerate such consistent failure.
     
  16. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
    25,605

    When Red Bull was dominating F1 (for 4 years) and pocketing all the titles, Ferrari was complaning.

    Now that Mercedes enjoys a long period of success, Ferrari still don't like it.

    But the 5 years of quasi-Monopoly Under Schumacher, that was alright.
     
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  17. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Jul 1, 2013
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    Yup, agreed 100%.
     
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  18. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,269
    One can add heat into the tire by increasing the Toe-In or Toe-Out. Since F1 cars are Toed-Out, add some more Toe-Out.
    Even weekend racers understand this.
     
  19. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
    8,468
    Kansas City, MO
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    DJ
    Jock Clear is a total moron.
     
  20. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
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    Full Name:
    DJ
    After Canada how can anyone say with a straight face that Merc doesnt get whatever it wants
     

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