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FORMULA 1 MYWORLD GROSSER PREIS VON ÖSTERREICH 2019: RACE ▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▀▄▀▄

Discussion in 'F1' started by SPEEDCORE, Jun 29, 2019.

  1. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/144514/ferrari-will-not-appeal-verstappen-overtake-decision

    Ferrari will not appeal the outcome of the Formula 1 stewards' investigation into Max Verstappen's Austrian Grand Prix-winning move, despite believing the "wrong decision" was made.

    Red Bull driver Verstappen made contact with Ferrari's Charles Leclerc while overtaking him for the lead at Turn 3 on the 69th lap of the 71-lap event, and went on to take the chequered flag in first place.

    Leclerc felt his rival had broken the rules in forcing him off the track, and Verstappen's win remained provisional for several hours as stewards investigated the incident.

    They ultimately reached a "no further action" verdict, ruling that neither driver was predominantly to blame for the clash.

    Speaking as the verdict was being announced, Ferrari team boss Mattia Binotto said the Italian outfit did not agree with the ruling, but also stated that it was looking to move on from the situation "to support the sport".
     
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  2. ricksb

    ricksb F1 Veteran

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    Check out the wheelbase vs Ferrari and Merc. It has much better traction coming out of slow corners...when you don’t have as many long straits, they can negate the advantages of the other two contenders.

    I think it’s more a case of Honda is paired with a credible chassis, but I don’t expect them to contend as aptly at silverstone, Monza, Spa, etc. Should do alright at Hungary and Singapore
     
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  3. ingegnere

    ingegnere Formula 3
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    Brilliant defending by LEC on the previous lap. Couldn't believe he came out ahead.

    I really do feel though that he missed a perfect opportunity to set the tone for future battles with VER when he got passed by not tagging him and trying to spin him out instead of moving over. By moving over, yes he avoided damage but he also gave him the race (a race LEC would never win after being passed) and put in VER's mind that he will yield in similar situations in the future.

    Maybe it's because he's a fair driver and instinctively wants to protect the car and finish the race but the championship is over and the race was lost so he really had nothing to lose in defending a move that called for that kind of defense. VER was ready to make contact and he should have replied in kind.
     
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  4. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Yes I do think RBR would've won with the Renault also.

    But how many retirements would they have had...
     
  5. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS Formula Junior
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    Nico Rosberg was pretty good at this during his championship year. Perhaps you should ask him?
     
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  6. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Even before complex rules were written regarding track behaviour (at the request of the drivers themselves) and stewards were introduced, making deliberate contact with another car was always a no-no.
    In an open-Wheel series, the consequences were considered too high to accept the risk.
    Now it has become too common (for my taste anyway), because racing has become so safe and the drivers well protected.
    The drivers have less restrain because there is hardly any physical outcome from hiting another car, bar a puncture maybe, or a bent track rod or else.
    Stirling Moss is maybe right when he claims that motor racing isn't dangerous enough today.
     
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  7. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    LOL, Max didn't hinder Charles. He was passing him. Had he better car. If anything Charles was hindering Max. And the incident was reported to the Stewards.
     
  8. csmjr91090

    csmjr91090 Rookie

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    That's a very good point. It echos what Niki Lauda said as well years ago. Paraphrasing, you were rivals and competitors on track but that never made you consider taking someone out or racing them dirty, because back then there was a real possibility of severely hurting or killing another driver.

    The rules are quite clear that contact which affects another car and forces them off track is not allowed, especially to gain a position. But as of late, that rule seems subject to interpretation, i.e. which driver or team is involved. I'll let the drivers decide if the rule should be changed or relaxed or how much contact is permissible to them, but until then, the FIA has to apply the rules consistently to be taken seriously.
     
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  9. E60 M5

    E60 M5 Moderator
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    I haven't bothered to read thru all the comments today, but these are my thoughts.

    How can a racer be in the lead and get penalized for making a move from the front, ie Vettel??

    Then a guy attacks from behind, brakes late pushes the lead car off and makes contact with no penalty?? Verstappen.

    The sport is a joke, no consistent penalties applied and they are all subjective to "spin the wheel" and guess the next stewards game.

    For sure, at a point MadMax would pass, but he didn't do it fairly in this instance in my view.
     
  10. werewolf

    werewolf F1 Veteran
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    Thank you, for actually reading the rules !!

    "Deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track" is "strictly prohibited."

    "Pushing or other contact resulting in a lasting advantage is strictly prohibited."

    I must have missed the qualifiers LOL
    - the rules don't apply if you're "racing"
    - the rules don't apply if you have control of the car
    - the rules don't apply if the car dis-advantaged is red

    have i missed any?
     
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  11. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    There are apparently former drivers who say it's OK to be "physical" on the track now.
    Like Martin Brundle, or Mario Andretti, etc... according to their comments on the air.

    It wasn't OK in Lauda's time, when cars could ignite at any moment after contact.
    Like in other walks of life, there is less respect for other individuals in motor racing nowadays.
     
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  12. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS Formula Junior
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    #487 pilotoCS, Jun 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
    On the other side of the coin . . .

    Charles was a sitting duck and he knew it. He tried valiantly to defend his position, but he knew he was toast. The incident in question involved nudging by both parties. Both came out in one piece and they proceeded with the faster car in front as it should be in racing.

    Bottom line - a racing incident. A fair ruling by the stewards.

    Now, if we may flash back to Montreal, there was no contact, but there was a penalty. Vettel left the track in the lead and rejoined in the lead with no contact. So if you want to talk about unfair and inconsistent, there's your talking point.
     
  13. werewolf

    werewolf F1 Veteran
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    The older F1 drivers long for the "good old days", when men were men ... and one or two of them died every season.
     
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  14. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS Formula Junior
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    Not even close to being appropriate to this discussion.
     
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  15. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    Does not matter. Toro is the test bed. Most teams do not have that luxury. The Renault seems a touch better this year....maybe???
     
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  16. cmos

    cmos Karting

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    And sex was safe
     
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  17. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    No I don’t believe Max would have had a penalty even if it was “more” than it was. It’s not genius, it’s simply breaking rules. It fit the script so they didn’t apply the rules. It’s that simple. LeClerc is a class act and is genuinely brilliant. He will be a Ferrari World Champion.
     
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  18. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran
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    I think if you have rules like this, they need to be applied with consistency. I am ok with Max’s pass, but if the rule is applied correctly, he suffers a 5 second penalty and doesn’t win.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  19. srephwed

    srephwed F1 Rookie
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    I only got to see a part of the race today. Ferrari's pit crew looked like a cub bear picking fleas off his ass with boxing gloves on.
     
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  20. fer312t

    fer312t Formula Junior

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    You just described an Adrian Newey chassis as 'credible' ?? :)
     
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  21. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    But how far can we tolerate this behaviour ?
    Also, how can the rules be applied with consistency if we have different sets of stewards at each race?
     
  22. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Even Newey designed bad cars in his career.
     
  23. fer312t

    fer312t Formula Junior

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    Of course...but I don't think the RB15 is one of them.
     
  24. fer312t

    fer312t Formula Junior

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    Evidently, revenge for 7 years earlier (watch from ~24 seconds to ~ 1 minute, 15 seconds)

     
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  25. werewolf

    werewolf F1 Veteran
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    #500 werewolf, Jun 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
    right ... newer rules aren't intended to have anything to do with safety :rolleyes:

    Perhaps you agree with Stirling Moss (quoted/paraphrased above), that racing today needs to be more dangerous ... is that closer "to being appropriate to this discussion"?
     

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