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FORMULA 1 MYWORLD GROSSER PREIS VON ÖSTERREICH 2019: RACE ▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▀▄▀▄

Discussion in 'F1' started by SPEEDCORE, Jun 29, 2019.

  1. rotaryrocket7

    rotaryrocket7 Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2011
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    I'm surprised that everyone allows Max to make moves like that. CL should have not run wide, should have turned into the contact and made it a 50/50 on who would continue.
     
  2. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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  3. itschris

    itschris Formula 3

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    Noooooo.... I didn't watch the race. Gimme a break. There have been many races where Lewis or Seb or Ric (back RBR) started at the back and plowed through the field. Doing that in a car that can lap the field by the midpoint is fun but it's not anything exceptional. I'm not say that Max didn't run a good race, nor do I think he should have been penalized, but my point was that we've been so pre-conditioned to accept boring and maligned races that ANY glimpse of real racing becomes a watershed event.
     
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  4. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    +1
     
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  5. italia16

    italia16 Karting

    Jan 28, 2004
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    Yes, in today's world with DRS, the leader can't let the follower get within 1 second or else he is a sitting duck. Was the more worn tires of Charles (10 laps) the reason Max was able to catch him?
     
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  6. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    Here's two views from former drivers to be going on with. Via this BBC link - https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/48821032

    Pedro de la Rosa, the former McLaren, Arrows, Jaguar and Sauber driver, said: "It was a superb race. Let's not forget though that the driver on the outside can and should back off at one point, but obviously with asphalt run offs no one does… hoping the guy inside gets penalised for forcing them off the track."

    And Alexander Wurz, the Grand Prix Drivers' Association chairman, who is central to conversations on this topic with drivers and the FIA, added: "Investigation? Why are we investigating?"
     
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  7. Oengus

    Oengus F1 Veteran
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    DRS makes no sense to me either.
     
  8. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    DRS is only there to counter act the diffusers that make the front end of a following car wash out which kills overtaking. I’m saying I like it. I’m saying we know why it’s there.
     
  9. werewolf

    werewolf F1 Veteran
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    If i had a dollar for every comment from an ex-F1 driver who clearly hasn't read (or understood) the current rules, i'd buy myself another Ferrari.

    "Deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track" is "strictly prohibited."

    "Pushing or other contact resulting in a lasting advantage is strictly prohibited."

    There are no exceptions or qualifiers written into the rules, such as:
    "These rules don't apply when you're actually racing."
    "These rules don't apply if someone is aggressively out-braking at a corner in Austria."
    "These rules don't apply if the two cars in question are red and blue."

    There's no "wiggle room" in the actual rules, as written ... Verstappen's pass was illegal.
     
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  10. itschris

    itschris Formula 3

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    I"m not even sure I care what the rules are... I just want them enforced consistently or removed. It's a bit different in turn one at the start of the race. It's chaos. Max's pass was his typical style. We either allow that or we don't. We don't give a pass because it was the first bit of excitement in an F1 race this year or because the it was his home race.
     
  11. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

    Feb 27, 2005
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    1. Leaving the track.
    2. Gaining an advantage.

    No penalties for either Mercedes.
    But, a penalty for Max

     
  12. werewolf

    werewolf F1 Veteran
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    Consistent application of the rules, by stewards with obvious bias or agenda, is certainly worthy of discussion or debate! But the clear, unambiguous language of the rules is not.
     
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  13. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    Both were “apportioned” blame for Austria so “racing incident”
     
  14. Ney

    Ney F1 Rookie
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    There are two problems with this pass in Austria and the defense/reentry issue of Canada.
    Problem 1 is that the rules exist as written and problem 2 is the inconsistency with which the FIA enforces their own rules.

    The Canada incident was the enforcement of a rule that was designed to regulate a drivers controlled re-entry to the racing surface, not a car that is beyond the drivers control following the laws of physics and human ability. There was no contact, yet a penalty was assessed. For the Austria incident where there was contact and a clear violation of the rules AS WRITTEN, that results in no penalty is beyond silly. Both involved the 1st and 2nd positions and determined the outcome of the race.

    If it was VER making a pass on the Mercedes of HAM on the next to last lap, would it have been a penalty? Very likely. That LEC has not garnered that status, means that he does not get the call and that is a huge problem for the FIA.

    To me, both were racing incidents, drivers pushing to and slightly past the limits of the car. This is the very essence of racing and what spectators want to see. If no one pushes the limit and is never out of shape, it is called a parade.
    Paved runoffs only add to the problem (and then they try to remedy that with the awful idea of a "sausage curb").
     
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  15. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    De LaRosa point exactly from his BBC quote. Why back off if you are not out of road/runoff. Charles was going to be passed, he knew it and was in fact passed as they contacted. He could have backed off. He didnt and lost argument in front of the Stewards. His mistake was an open door to the inside racing line.....I think he keeps a more 'closed door' next time.

    I dont feel status is an issue wearing red or any other color. He is a competitor.
     
  16. TonyL

    TonyL Formula 3

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    Agree with all you say but if we want to see the essence of racing and deem most skirmishes as racing incidents, then I hope you will agree that everyone should do it not just Verstappen, I am sure CL would have been much more aggressive to MV had he known contact was acceptable. However I think we need to be careful what we wish for in this respect.
     
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  17. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    Why should he back off? He was side by side with other car, the rules say that drivers must leave space, no matter if they´re in the inside or the outside.

    Actually, I was surprised about how cool he was: the normal panic reaction would be going for the inside, but he chose the outside to have better speed at the next straight. It worked fine the first time. The second time Verstappen had learnt the trick and just slammed the door.
     
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  18. DF1

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    We would openly applaud CL doing this and Max if he was in the red pilot suit lol
     
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  19. TonyL

    TonyL Formula 3

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    :) don't you mean "just rammed him off the road"
     
  20. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    He kept cool to bring the car home and finish the race. He was a bit less aggressive but level headed, for the future this is good for CL.

    Max has paid the price with his antics and will again as we see he really has not changed too much overall. He is a superb racer but will find himself in trouble again depending on how he controls his temper and energy. My personal opinion and by no means an insult with anyone here. I gave full credit to a great GP and Max yesterday. No one is perfect of course!
     
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  21. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    This reasoning is almost insulting. I´m not talking about that: I´m talking about FIA´s lack of standards.

    And for the record: I´m OK with Verstappen overtake, as long as everybody is allowed to do that. So far, it´s only allowed randomly.
     
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  22. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    Did not mean to insult. The FIA and the sport and its leaders will never be perfect. Ive given up on that logic completely. We can only hope they strive to improve areas that are truly weak. Full time Stewards would be nice.
     
  23. TonyL

    TonyL Formula 3

    Sep 27, 2007
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    Agree, I wouldn't go as far to say it was a great GP though, good in places:) Desperation has set in because this is the second GP running that the directors have focused on the mid teams, only when there was a dim light up front did the centre of attention shift.

    If MV can control himself rather than being a petulant kid then he will be WDC. There are much better ways to make a [good] name for yourself, being a arse isn't!

    BR

    Tony
     
  24. werewolf

    werewolf F1 Veteran
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    Agreed.

    But it's good to know that jamming another driver off-track ... on the inside, near the apex, with contact ... is now clearly acceptable, too! Only if you're "racing" of course :)
     
  25. LVP488

    LVP488 Formula 3

    Jan 21, 2017
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    I'm afraid it's not clearly acceptable, I bet that if LH is pushed in the same situation the other driver will be penalized. A deliberate violation of the rules by the stewards is unlikely to become jurisprudence.
     
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