FORMULA 1 PIRELLI GRAND PRIX DU CANADA 2019: RACE ▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▀▄▀▄

err nooo sorry going on and on about an incident 3 years ago is not the answer

so what would you say if roles reversed ...its a fairly simple question which you will never answer without going round and round in circles still with no real answer ...

 

Vettel's mistake ... going off in the grass ... created the problem in the first place:

You consider this to be my opinion only:

Vettle did not have control when he rejoined:

You think it's only "my opinion" that Vettel had no control when he rejoined:

But Vettel himself shares the same "opinion":

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.crash.net/f1/news/922229/1/vettel-s-canadian-gp-f1-team-radio-outburst-full?amp

Ferrari to Vettel: “We have a five-second time penalty for unsafe re-entry. Head down, head down.”

Vettel: “I had nowhere to go. Seriously I had nowhere to go. I didn’t see him.”

Vettel: “When you go through the grass and come back you have amazing grip! Where was I supposed to go? I have grass on my wheels. He decides to go that way, if he got to the inside he got past me.”

Ferrari: “OK, stay focussed. Copy that but stay focussed. 10 laps to go.”

Vettel: “I am focused but they are stealing the race from us!”

And later, from Vettel himself:

"You need to be an absolute blind man to think you can go through the grass and then control the car"



SO ... is it "fact" or "opinion" that Vettel had no control when he rejoined? If it is "opinion" only ... it's certainly an "opinion" shared by Vettel himself !!!

 

When did it become legal to leave the track, cut a corner, and maintain your position?

 

And even the guy behind him who was involved in the incident said that he would have done nothing else...
It was fun as long as it lasted but from here you can play with yourself...

 

I think the appeal will be dismissed on some technical grounds as the FIA doesn’t want to rule on the merits. I keep mentioning Monaco 2016 because that set the precedent. That was considered a racing incident, as this should have been considering that they are both street circui

 

... and he would have been penalized, as well.

Thanks for playing!

 

You are riding the multi21- horse after how many years??? And now you say an identical incident 3 years ago can not be taken into consideration??? OK....

 

Nope, see Monaco.... was my pleasure

 

Stop posting nonsense!!

You're allowed to cut a corner, put all four tires in the grass, and then push an "alongside" driver off the track ... if you're driving a red car on an internet forum

 

How about a Mercedes at Mexico ?

Hamilton gained 5 car lengths.

Race stewards were presumably asleep for that one

 

+1

 

best give lewis penalties also then for running wide several times.

I'm sorry but you can't give a penalty for making a small error, that's automatically penalized by losing time.

Had lewis gone for an overtake, and Vettel gone off, the penalty would've been deserved (but at the same time, had that happened, Vettel would've already lost the place due to time loss)

 

If Ferrari can come up with data that goes against what the Stewards have they will appeal before the Thursday deadline. If they can't produce something they will most likely drop the appeal. Its all about what Vettel actually did in that split second when he regained control.Which may or may not be contrary to what he has said.

 

I think we've established that Mercedes drive under different rules, and a different championship.

Therefore, I'd like to make the following statements:

Congrats to Ricciardo for the 2014 WDC, and Red Bull for continuing their streak and getting their 5th in a row
Congrats to Vettel for winning the 2015 title and Ferrari the 2015 WCC.
Congrats to Ricciardo for winning his 2nd WDC in 2016, and red bull on getting back on top
Congrats to Vettel for winning a fantastic 6th and 7th WDC and Ferrari racking up 2 more titles in the last 2 seasons.

 

Oh... oh this is the best popcorn ever! Hey, do you need some help beating that dead horse?

Just a bit of levity and not directed at anyone but I see that no once is going to change their mind and the penalty is not going away.

I felt the same way when Lewis got handed a 25sec penalty at Spa 08. Not only was I gutted but almost the whole of F1 but that didn't change anything.

 

Who said supplying the F1 Pace Car doesn't come with fringe benefits ?

I have literally lost count of how many times race stewards must have been enjoying a cheeky power nap, each time Mercedes contravened the rule book.

Cue the Mercedes trolls

 

I have posted this in another section but it is totally relevant to how the stewards viewed and adjudicated on the incident. In my opinion the bone of contention appears to be did SV have control of the car when re-joining the track. In my opinion he did as he [SV] placed his car exactly where he wanted it to be knowing full well where LH was and impeding him which led to the stewards investigation. Game over.

Was the penalty wrong, in my opinion in the spirit of racing, then Yes it was. Why?

SV and LH engaged in a split second tussle for a position on the track.

Unfortunately rules are rules and the regulations have to be administered and dealt with, that’s where the problem occurs. So.

The 2019 Sporting Regulations give total authority to the stewards to look at really anything they deem an incident:

2019 Sporting Regulations

38) INCIDENTS DURING THE RACE


38.1 The race director may report any on‐track incident or suspected breach of these Sporting
Regulations or the Code (an “Incident”) to the stewards. After review it shall be at the
discretion of the stewards to decide whether or not to proceed with an investigation.
The stewards may also investigate an Incident noted by themselves.

The appendix to those regulations give brief but specific requirements of drivers code which the stewards have to enforce, highlighted in bold below.

APPENDIX L TO THE INTERNATIONAL SPORTING CODE

2b Overtaking, according to the
circumstances, may be carried out on either
the right or the left.
A driver may not deliberately leave the track
without justifiable reason.
More than one change of direction to defend
a position is not permitted.
Any driver moving back towards the racing
line, having earlier defended his position off
line, should leave at least one car width
between his own car and the edge of the
track on the approach to the corner.
However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other
drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car
beyond the edge of the track or any other
abnormal change of direction, are strictly
prohibited. Any driver who appears guilty of
any of the above offences will be reported to
the Stewards.

2c Drivers must use the track at all times. For
the avoidance of doubt, the white lines
defining the track edges are considered to
be part of the track but the kerbs are not.
Should a car leave the track for any reason,
and without prejudice to 2(d) below, the
driver may rejoin.
However, this may only be done when it is
safe to do so and without gaining any
advantage. A driver will be judged to have
left the track if no part of the car remains in
contact with the track.

2d Causing a collision, repetition of serious
mistakes or the appearance of a lack of
control over the car (such as leaving the
track) will be reported to the Stewards and
may entail the imposition of penalties up to
and including the exclusion of any driver
concerned.

I don’t really see what area SF can appeal against these rules, except,

1. that he did not change direction (more than once) to crowd out LH
   
   
2. He did not leave at least one cars width and therefore crowded out the other driver
   
   
3. He did re-join safely (car was under control)
   
   
4. He did lack control and this caused him to leave the track in the first place

I call that a draw and therefore in the context the stewards should have let them get on with it.

 

1) It's pretty established now Vettel has been very error-prone. Might be the car, might be him.
2/3) This is the crux of the penalty. 10 years ago, it would be racing incident, but new regulations (and it's fair to criticize those as being unwarranted or not) says he did rejoin track without giving Ham space, hence the penalty. Of course, he could have made room, but also means he loses the race (hence he didn't.) - That's why the Stewards gave him the loss. Of course, many of the parades of older drivers are valid in their admonishment because their argument is based on older regulations. It's clear though in the new rules that you have to give some space when rejoining the track. Yes, this all makes F1 look silly and is very confusing for fans old and new. It is bureaucracy.

 

Largely agree. The argument in favor of Vettel is on VERY thin ice, according to the rules as they exist today:

- If Vettel was out of control when he rejoined, as he claimed on many occasions ... then pushing Hamilton, who was "alongside", off-track is clear evidence of "unsafe rejoining".

- If Vettel was under control when he rejoined ... then he executed an "illegal block" by squeezing Hamilton, who had to brake and steer completely off-track to avoid a collision.

The bottom line is rather unavoidable ... it's damn hard to avoid a penalty (either directly, on-track ... or indirectly, by the stewards) when you're in a tight battle and you make a mistake that puts all 4 tires in the grass.

 

Formula Mercedes sucks....it's hard to win when you can't win, even when you do..i say, let's pack it and leave them playing alone, their titles are as empty as Elton's foirst one, Ferrari knows or should know the FIA will give them the title to mather what, i mean, they payed for it, so they deserve it, so why bother? Some people like to win on merit, other just like to win, no mather how, and the easyest way to do it is to to just buy victories...Mer looks happy to win this way, they've done it for years, so just give them the cup and on to the enxt one...

 

This is what F1 is.





Utter nonsense...

Formula Mercedes.

 

One word - FUEL. The car was fuel limited at the end, so he could drive faster, but break down before the flag, or get the car home and get points. I’m also aware from a friend in the team that Seb was thinking about other options during the end of the race, which I take to be parking up in protest, and also backing Elton up to let Charles catch and pass them both

 

If that happened, do you really believe the stewards would penalise golden balls? Really? Come on mate, you and I are friends, but I can’t believe you would ,think this would happen hehehe. If it did, can you imagine the uproar here from the Elton boys? They be paraplectic with rage, and no better than us when it happened to Seb. We might be happy it occurred, but I’ll tell you what, we’d be far more SURPRISED than we were happy, as it would mean the stewards are NOT biased towards the Mercedes

 

I personally take it as the fault of Ferrari to put itself yet again in a difficult situation. Either the car was not stable enough or Vettel caused the oversteer. It was Ferrari's to lose, and they did it again. It brings me no joy to say this. It does bring me joy to say Mercedes is a worthy competitor, and if their success only makes Ferrari better for the future, that's fine with me.