stopped by ferrari of san francisco today and the sales man there claims 430's are back ordered for the next 3 years. is that true? i knew they had 2 on display a couple of months ago for a dinner they had to debut the car, but he said those two were sold and he claimed every one they have received since then was basically picked up immediately by the owner of the car. i've heard a lot of different stories regarding the 430, but a 3 year back order?
Yup. Welcome to the weird world of Ferrari. And after the long 3 year wait, most of the "passion" filled customers will find lots of reasons not to drive them. Go figure.
i dont understand why it is such a long wait, maybe its just me but it seems like they were pretty easy for people in Europe to get a hold of, i know they were released overseas first, i could be wrong about this but how come it doesnt appear that there is a huge wait there? 3 years is insane to wait for a car, im sure a lot of people really want them and its up to them what they want to do but 3 years is a really long time to have to wait to get a 430. or is it just like anything else in the world and to get one its who you know and how much money you have ready to put down on the car? and what sucks is the fact that people are flipping them for like $250k++ which will most likely be the case until that 3 years is up and then those price tags will probably still linger for a few years past that.........
kozmo, get on the list for the 430 successor now or better still, leave a deposit on the 430 CS as well. rock on
Ferrari has mastered "supply vs. demand". It's too bad that flippers have access to the early cars. It's too bad real sports car nuts (like me) have to wait for an 06 or 07 car. I'm not complaining as I at least will get a car for MSRP.
the reason i bring it up is because my dad is supposedly on the list at ferrari of beverly hills, and i say supposedly because we called, said he was interested, and they said they added his name to a list, whether they actually did or not i guess we will never know. i dont understand why 3 years though, that just seems ridiculous, a year is more understandable, even a year and a half, but 3 years is too much. if you know the right people does it help? my dad is friends with a guy who got his enzo through FoSF, if he were to put in a good word does that help? does how much cash you have ready to put down on the car help so the dealership gets more money right off the bat? when you think about it, so much can happen in 3 years time, it's weird thinking you have to wait that long just to get a chance to buy this car.
The alternative to playing the dealer game is just buying a used one. In about a year the prices won't be that high over MSRP anyway(?) and IMO it will cost you less than having to jump through hoops for the dealer. If your Dad really wants one(or someone wants him to get one ) then play any angle you can including his Enzo contact.
IMO, the quickest way to a dealer's heart (and onto the "list") is to purchase something else. Buy a used 360, and Maserati, or some other car with an understanding that a firm spot on the list is included in that purchase price. It also helps to agree to sell the car that you bought back to them, so they can resell it and make a couple bucks. Does this make sense--to the dealer, yes, to you as the consumer, not really--but it is one way to play the game. Every dealership is different, of course.
Agreed. Now depending on the market this should work. It's my guess that out here for example, buying a 360 will get you on a list but it won't necessarily be the short one. Now if you were to walk off with a 575 or 612 then yea, the short one. BTW, FoOC looks to have a red 430 for sale. It's probably market though.
my dad definitely would not buy a car first just to get on the list, he just would not see things from that perspective, it makes perfect sense, but he would never be able to justify that. i dont even know if we are really on "the list" because i havent been to the beverly hills dealership since he was supposedly put on "the list" to confirm it, i was pretty shocked when the guy said 3 years, that just didn't seem realistic to me at all but apparently it is. there has to be loop holes, there are loop holes for everything in life and a 430 is no different. if my dad comes to the point where he decides that he wants one for sure im sure he will figure something out, including possibly asking his friend to put in a good word for him, that may work.
Kozmo, Couple of points: 1. Different dealers have different policies, but you are stuck with local dealers. They can't sell outside their area. 2. Many dealers are already sold out of their anticipated 5 year allotment. I know Ferrari of Denver is now taking deposits on THE NEXT MODEL! 3. If your dad does not have a contract made binding with a deposit, he's not on any list. 4. I put a deposit on 360 successor which we now know to be the 430 9/02. Just this week, I have an order for an allocated car and chose colors and options. Delivery is anticpated in Oct.--37 months. The only other car I every bought from them was a 308 in 1996. I don't think I got consideration for that. 5. The only reason I'm getting one as soon as I am is because I happened to be first for a stick shift. I believe this is getting me a car about 1 year sooner than had I opted for paddles. 6. If he wanted a 12 cylinder model, I believe he could get one pretty quick. Dave
There is a loophole....as previously mentioned......it's called paying over MSRP, and although I would never do it........it's the only way short of having a long term established relationship with a dealer. Would your father or anyone else here want one if each dealer had 15-20 units per month available for sale ?
On #3- I hope you're not correct because I'm on the wait list at FoBH also. They put my name on the wait list without a deposit for a F430 about a year ago and I just talked to the salesman who put me on the list to get an update and he said it will be 2 years for me. He gave me a letter when I went to the dealership stating that my name is on the list. I have not done any previous business with them before but they seem upfront and sincere with me that my name will come up and I'll be getting it at MSRP. On #5-He also said wanting a coupe with a 6-speed manual will make my name come up sooner than if I wanted a F1 or spider. So if my name does come up it will be about a 3 year wait. Yes, that's a long time to wait for a car, albeit it's not just any car, but it makes the excitement and anticipation greater when my name does come up to choose color and options.
kozmo, stop complaining. the list is BS. there is no such a thing that if you are the 46th person called to buy a 430 so you are the 46th spot on the list, it is not first come first serve. you buy a 360 spider from a dealer today then a 575 or a 612 next week, you will be getting the next F430 coupe AND a spider at msrp, simple as that. if u dad does not like how the game is played, man up and buy a new one for 300k, available now everywhere. if he also does not see things that way, well, buy a lambo at list now and be happy. think about it. the F430 market price is worth ~75k over the list price. why would a dealer sell it to YOU at list if ur not in their "program"?
im not complaining, simply stating my opinions, perhaps you should consider being friendlier to fellow car enthusiasts instead of coming here with an attitude when you don't know me or anything about me. i am simply getting information about the car for myself and to pass on to my dad, if you can't understand that then why post in the first place? i felt i was polite and as clear as i could be in all of my posts, no reason for your negativity.
I am stating my opinion just like you are, which is complaining is no use and list is BS. Further more, I do believe I helped you on your question, you might feel the response to be negative, but that's exactly how the game of "obtain a new Ferrari" works.
i understand how it works, my main question is, aside from the supposed "list", do factors such as how much money you have to put down regardless of never owning one before matter? does a contact with a high end car such as the enzo help to put in a good word? those were my questions, as i stated, there are loop holes for everything, and im seeing what loopholes exist for the 430 aside from buying a flipped one from one of the privileged ferrari owner elite, or waiting 3-5 years.
OK, I'll take a direct shot at your questions. Enzo owners (the original ones who were "invited" by Maranello to purchase one) are often (but not always) very good customers of the dealer. If an Enzo owner knows a dealership principle personally, and would be willing to vouch that you (or your dad) has the right balance sheet, the passion, and the willingness to purchase multiple automobiles--it might help. But as many have said, the best way to demonstrate that is to buy another car from the dealer. Every dealer is different, but the amount of money down makes no difference (state laws may vary--in Oregon, vehicle deposits are refundable up until delivery of the vehicle). And as long as the 430's are worth more than MSRP, a dealer looses nothing buy having one buyer back out--there are many others on the list waiting in line. To the uninitiated, this situation is a pisser--plain and simple. I've loved Ferraris since I was 10--at 40, I finally had the means to purchase one--I wanted a new 360--guess what, no go. Had to play the game.
I think we've pretty much addressed your questions already. How 'bout pay'n off the manager at the dealer? It all boils down to $$ i.e. what they've made off of you in the past and what they can make off of you now and/or in the future. So, your Dad needs to either pay up or line up. If you do find an angle let us know BTW, there may be other ways out there. But, people are not going to just blab it around. You have to be smart enough to figure it our for yourself.......Good luck.
1) i do not believe how much cash u put in the front has anything to do with it. dealer do not care if you are 100% cash buy or have to beg for a loan at 18% APR, they get 100% money on the date of purchase, they care less where it comes from. they should even prefer if u get financing or lease thru one of their contacts. 2) not sure how much an enzo owner can help u. if he is very important to the dealer, and he states he will not buy from them ever again if they don't get u a 430 then maybe it helps. who knows. but the way i see, if he has an enzo he is in the program and should know how it works, he probably will tell u to develop a relation with dealer just like he did. of course there are loop holes for everything. if u catch the GM having affair with the accountant and threaten to tell his wife, i am sure he will put u down for the next allocation. or if u save his kids from drowning that will work too. sarcasm aside, i will say this again. the market price of the car is 75k over the list price, thats like 2 yrs of salary for nation's average. so there IS GOTTA BE A GOOD REASON why dealer should give the car to you, right?
i appreciate all the help and responses. i have learned a great deal of information from all of you and how to handle this particular situation. thank you.
