Found an E36 M3...questions and nervous...step inside please...

bmws are expensive out of warranty. M cars are even more expensive out of warranty. If you are ok with that, then get it. Btw, how much are they asking for the car?

 

1. Give us the full run down on the car, maintenance history, any major repairs, anything not done, any damage, wear and tear etc.

2. You are looking at buying a 12 year old race car, not a 10 year old race car. The car was most likely sold in the fall, winter of '96 or the spring of 97 making it nearly 12 years old on the button.

3. M cars have higher replacement costs for parts than regular BMW's of the same size. They are also far more likely to have their {excuse my language} cocks ragged for pretty much their whole lives compared with BMW's of the same size with smaller motors and "lesser" suspensions.

That's not to say the car you're looking at has been torn apart but the car is suspect and not being able to see it in person and have a trusted person inspect the car is a gamble all on its own. If I was worried about a car I was buying I simple wouldn't buy it. Are you going to be one of those guys who worries about hitting pot holes because it may result in a repair bill? Will you fret when the car goes in for a service and perhaps a few issues are found? Are you going to house the car in a garage every night or perhaps change bedrooms because the car is in the driveway at the front of the house and you sleep in the back of the house?

I've seen hundreds and hundreds of people worry about money when they buy a car like this and it IS NOT worth it. Buy a newer regular 3 series that has "more life" in it and cheaper/ easier repair bills. If you go ahead with the purchase I hope you can enjoy the car but it seems like you're starting off on the very wrong foot. Also with the market in this kind of shape a regular 3 series with a smaller motor will be easier to find since soo many of them were sold and their won't be as big a fight between buyers since there is enough to go around.

P.S. Don't forget the PPI before you buy, that's a hundred bucks that is worth thousands more. I buy and flip these cars for fun and the only time I didn't make a profit {after driving the car for a few years} was on a car I bought sight unseen and with an "OK" from a mechanic I barely knew. Be smart.

 

Why are you dealing with a dealer from Cinci when the car is in San Fran?

If this was a private sale and they wanted more than $10,000 taxes included I would tell them to die a horrible death. You'll always pay a few grand more at a dealership over a private sale. Someone sold that car to the dealership for a few to several grand less than what you'll pay. The car would have been detailed, perhaps the oil and a few filters were changed but only the bare minimum unless stated otherwise and proven. So right off the bat the previous owner thought the car was worth less than what you are willing to pay and he knew the car before hand.

The more I think about it the more I'm reminded of how much I like private sales, you take the car for your own PPI to your own guys and decide how much work it will need in the future, what work was done and that gives you a great sense for the value of the car and then you take the car back to its owner and work out a deal. If the car needs work, get a quote printed up and take that with you to show the owner and tell him to take $3,000 off the price on the registration forms so you're first minor service is paid for with the cash you save on the tax.

 

Here are a few photos of a ten year old 540. I bought it when it was seven years old. The first link with the single picture is from the first day I bought it.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v615/NeilMacKay/98%20BMW%20540i%206%20speed/?action=view&current=SA400015.jpg


The second link is after what more that two years of driving the car like a race car, lending it to friends, crashing it and putting over 20,000 miles on it. It looks better after the years that I had it during the end of winter with the winter tires and wheel still on it than it did when I first bought it. My point is these cars can take a boat load of abuse and show ZERO signs of the mishandling for many years, they were built well and hide damage and aggressive driving styles very well.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v615/NeilMacKay/98%20BMW%20540i%206%20speed%20II/

You car being "adult owned" means nothing, I've worked with 50 year old guys that pounded their cars harder than I did. Thousands of BMW owners track their cars religiously and other tens of thousands do it from time to time. What "gives you the impression that it wasn't abused?" Why would someone buy an M3 and not drive it hard? Why wouldn't they have picked up a regular 3 series and saved $20,000 in purchase price, tax, fuel, insurance and repair costs? Everyone I talked to at BMW loved their M cars for one reason, they were faster, sportier and handled better than a regular BMW. That's why M cars are purchased from new and that's why they are purchased from used.

When you say the history "comes up clean" Do you have the history from day one? No dealer will give that to you unless you have every owners permission down the line. And clean means what? in the last 11 years was every part of the suspension replaced at least once? How about brake lines, fuel lines? Any engine work? How about emissions? That can sink your boat in a hurry! The latest 5 series I had needed over $5,000 for the cat converters and your car no longer qualifies under the emissions warranty. A 4 wheel brake job can be a couple of thousand if there are rusty parts/ worn parts that break during the replacement of others.

P.S. You can't tell that my hood was replaced and you can't tell it was in a collision with another car that was totaled by the impact. It's not easy to destroy a 2003 Toyota Corolla but my 540 did in one foul swoop. The only reason we replaced the hood was because the impact kinked a little bit beside the grills.

P.P.S. In this post that I quoted from you, you sound like the seller of this car. You seem eager to say the car is sound even though you haven't seen the car. I hope you aren't blinding yourself with emotion, that happens a lot with BMW's and other "dreams". I still do that from time to time with my own cars and I've had a few dozen pass through my driveways.

 

Yeah, PM me the price and also let me know why there isn't a BMW logo on the steering wheel? Did you ask the dealer if and of the dash lights weren't working? That's a costly issue to handle and it's very annoying if you don't fix it.

 

How much is it? Isn't a new regular 3er better than the old M3? I'm pretty sure it is, not only in general, but performance too.

 

1st. low mileage e36 m3 are becoming very hard to find. i have two friends looking for cars.

2nd. never buy a car sight unseen.

3rd. see number 2.

make your deal contingent on a PPI and visual inspection upon shipment back to cinci.

 

1. PPI $200
2. verify numbered panels
3. check vanos
4. waterpump and cooling system weakness
5. Odometer can be replaced and driven to 44k miles.
6. check carfax and autocheck and call dealers to verify mileage and work done under warranty

 

I had an E36 M3 (2 door) back in the day and loved it. however, I wouldn't buy one now to use as a daily driver. track/DE/autocross car, sure. but M3s are notorious for being driven hard, and often have deferred maintenance and half-assed repairs due to high costs. the new 328 is nearly as fast, less likely to crap out on you, has a warranty and free scheduled maintenance. a much better "sleep at night" proposition. especially if the car you're looking at is 2000 miles west, being represented by a dealer 300 miles southeast....

btw where in St. Louis are you? your profile says you're in Indiana. new to the Lou?

 

I'll add to check
7. diff mounts
8. rear upper shock mounts
9. flex disk aka guibo and center drive shaft support

parts aren't as bad as Ferrari but much higher than the std car. also the E46 328 or 330 is faster handles better and far more comfortable. the Vanos was further improved by that model too.

 

I second the previous two posts!

I have an E36 328i that is heavily modified and it has been BULLETPROOF in the 4 yrs I have owned it. They are fantastic cars. The only major issue is the cooling system as mentioned above. Usually these should be replaced with the updated waterpump and T-Stat and it is not *that* expensive to do so (ie. 500$ or so). So long as there is service history with the car and it has been maintained well, you should have nothing to worry about.

 

Can you post the price here? I agree, if it is more than 10K then it's a bad deal. E36 sedans have held up pretty poorly. That said, have you driven an E36 M3? I've owned a couple and each time was unimpressed and ended up selling them. BTW, I'm in SF if you need a pair of eyes on the car.

 

My e46 328 has been mostly reliable. In 2.5 years of ownership I've replaced the waterpump and power steering pump. It's running a little rough right now so I think it needs o2 sensors. Other than that no problems. There are so many BMW's on the roads these days that parts are easy to find and not too expensive as long as you don't buy from a dealer.

 

Buying sight unseen? Crazyness.

 

Bought an e36 M3 track car this spring. $180 ppi found it needed a valve job. Took $2500 off the price.

 

Can't really add any specific comment about the E36 M3, but considering your alternative, a new BMW, I guess the depreciation hit you'd have to take with a new car would pay for a lot of repairs on the M3...