Found out dealer didn't disclose paint work | FerrariChat

Found out dealer didn't disclose paint work

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Dansage, May 5, 2018.

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  1. Dansage

    Dansage Karting

    May 20, 2012
    230
    Hey all, apologies if this is in the wrong section but it seemed like the best place to post. 4~ months ago I bought a 458 spider from a major dealer, the transaction was smooth and I was ecstatic to take delivery. After many happy miles I happened to be at another dealership ordering a different make's car (this dealer is one of the biggest east coast shops and is multi brand though I won't name names as of now) and asked for a trade appraisal on my 458. I was immediately told that they could see there was lots of paint work done all over the left side of the car and showed me the paint meter that registered the paint on the left side of the car being almost twice as thick as the rest. I naturally was surprised as I was never told of anything being done to the car when I was buying it. Later that day I took the car to multiple local body shops who all confirmed that their was major paintwork done without a shred of doubt. After all this I called the original dealer asking if they knew about the car ever having paintwork done to which they didn't really want to answer only saying "maybe". I'm now stuck with a car that is worth substantially less then others on the market due to the obvious work any professional can see. I've approached my dealer about them buying the car back but they're pretty much priming me saying to expect wholesale with the terrible value. Anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? Is this lawyering up time? I appreciate any and all advice!

    Edit: I should add their own bodyshop manager said he could see there was work done on the car when I took it to them so they've essentially admitted it was worked on.
     
  2. Bisonte

    Bisonte F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 27, 2007
    7,989
    Northern Virginia
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    Greg
    That sucks. Is the store where you bought the car a factory dealership? If so, you could take up your situation with FNA as a starting point.
     
  3. toggie

    toggie F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 30, 2003
    19,036
    Virginia
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    Toggie (Ron)
    The problem of course is the legal costs of going to court will likely exceed the diminished value of the 458 due to just the paint issue.
    I'm not a lawyer but I think it is pretty easy to run up a $50k plus legal bill if you the other side fights back at all (letters, filings, counter suits, depositions, expert witness fees, etc.).

    So, is Small Claims Court an option? Don't know the limit in your state, maybe $5k max settlement?

    Or, get a lawyer to write the initial letters and hope they settle out of court early in the process?

    I guess it wouldn't hurt to talk to an attorney licensed in your state with experience in car lawsuits.

    .
     
    I'm 360 Canuck and Viperjoe like this.
  4. Dansage

    Dansage Karting

    May 20, 2012
    230
    It is a factory dealership. Would FNA even hear me out considering it was a used car and not new?

    The difference is roughly 60k in value looking at current wholesale bids on clean cars vs cars with stated work. NY has a $5k max so small claims is definitely out of the question. All around ****ty situation.

    What would a letter encompass? Just a demand for a buy back?
     
  5. RossoC360

    RossoC360 Formula Junior
    Owner

    Jun 20, 2008
    475
    Buffalo NY
    Full Name:
    Jason
    If paintwork was a concern did you ask them if the car had any paintwork prior to purchasing? A dealer is not required to disclose paintwork. Period. You have ZERO legal action unless the car was misrepresented. If the carfax is clean it was most likely a re-spray to repair minor damage like a scratch.
     
  6. Dansage

    Dansage Karting

    May 20, 2012
    230
    I did ask if there was ANY work ever done to the car be it mechanical or cosmetic and was told no there had not. I don't think carfax is the end all be all in this case as a few months back when shopping for cars saw multiple m3's with clean carfax's that had bodywork done paid in cash so it wasn't reported.
     
  7. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    15,198
    ny
    Sucks and emphasizes why all cars need ppi regardless who buying it from. authorized dealers word is worthless. Clean carfax almost meaningless since people who buy $250k cars usually willing to pay for repairs out of pocket so insurance co never reports it. Have car inspected to see exactly what was damaged. I doubt it was 'just a light respray' as if someone keyed it. Good luck but buyer beware of used car dealers!
     
    docf and Texas Forever like this.
  8. Bisonte

    Bisonte F1 Veteran
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    Mar 27, 2007
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    You're still one of their customers, so I don't think it can hurt to try contacting them.
     
    TheDiffuser likes this.
  9. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Veteran

    Jan 15, 2007
    5,257
    Montana
    Full Name:
    Kim
    Yeah at this point the best thing to do is get the paint work and overspray cleaned up and enjoy the car.. just another used car dealer, deceptive in their practice. Remember it for next purchase, about all you can do.
     
  10. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    7,376
    Weston, MA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Yes, unfortunately it is.

    This happens all the time with all kinds of makes. I would say there is zero chance they would buy the car back. Maybe if you had a lawyer send them a letter they might make some small financial concession.

    If you are absolutely positive they lied to you, then tell them you will go public here with the situation. That might get them to move. Keep in mind they may have taken in the car not knowing the paint damage.
     
    TheDiffuser likes this.
  11. Dansage

    Dansage Karting

    May 20, 2012
    230
    Even if they took it in without knowing about the damage wouldn't they still bare the responsibility of having to stand behind it?
     
  12. dmundy

    dmundy Formula 3
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    Sep 11, 2010
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    Arthur Dent
    Did you have a ppi done on the car?

    Is it a CPO car?

    If you had a ppi done it would be good to know who did it. Because that’s an easy thing to catch.

    If it was a CPO car you have a much better leg to stand on. But even then, really just for leverage on the next deal at the same dealership.

    A dealer has no obligation to tell you anything really. Most of us saying things like that learned it the hard way, so please don’t feel like anyone is looking down at you about this!
     
    Natkingcolebasket69 likes this.
  13. Dansage

    Dansage Karting

    May 20, 2012
    230
    I didn't have a PPI done as it was a CPO car. I'm pretty young so looking back at it I think they knew I was the easiest person to unload the car too under the assumption of more money then brains since it was my first time dealing with such a purchase.
     
  14. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

    Oct 17, 2005
    12,313
    At Sea Level
    Read the CPO terms / conditions word for word, especially regarding paintwork and bodywork. Do you know the name of the prior owner? A polite phone call to him to find out the true history might prove fruitful. It's possible terms of CPO were violated. I'd have a lawyer review.
     
    Natkingcolebasket69 and docf like this.
  15. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Feb 11, 2008
    98,758
    Vegas baby
    I suspect this happens more than we think.

    I bought a brand new Maserati spider in 2003. I got one of the very first batches. It had 35 miles on the clock when I picked it up --which is quite typical.

    Years later I brought it to another dealer for service and detailing. It was never serviced anywhere but one of 2 dealers and never had any damage of any kind.

    When I picked it up the service manager said to me: "So, when did you have the hood repainted?"

    "Never" I said

    "oops"
     
  16. dmundy

    dmundy Formula 3
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    Arthur Dent
    CPO to me makes it more likely that you can successfully throw a fit.

    Where are you geographically?
     
  17. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    CPO doesn't mean it was never hit. It means its to factory standards (whatever those are). This car may have been damaged in shipment and repaired by a factory authorized shop. If that's the case, it will pass the CPO.

    Or it was keyed and they repainted it in an authorized shop. It would still pass if it's to "factory standard".
     
  18. toggie

    toggie F1 World Champ
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    Nov 30, 2003
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    Probably not an age thing, they probably would have done it to an older person too.

    If it helps any, very few customers are going to bring a paint thickness meter with them when buying a CPO car from an official dealership.

    Sorry you're dealing with this situation at this point.
     
  19. Dansage

    Dansage Karting

    May 20, 2012
    230
    I'm in NYC.
     
  20. dmundy

    dmundy Formula 3
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    Sep 11, 2010
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    Totally agree.

    I’m just saying that if one pays extra for a CPO car, it would be worth more traded back to the same dealer. If not, they are gonna have a tough time explaining why.

    I know, I know, they’ll lie about market conditions and having too many 458’s and...
     
  21. Dansage

    Dansage Karting

    May 20, 2012
    230
    I don't think it was as simple as being keyed. The paint work on multiple panels. Adding on that they can't quite seem to get their story straight as the sales person won't say it was worked on but their internal body shop people say it was.
     
  22. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Feb 11, 2008
    98,758
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    Completely agree. The OP probably overpaid for the car but the dealer is probably off the hook. It does make you wonder what else they don't tell you about CPO cars.
     
  23. toggie

    toggie F1 World Champ
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    Nov 30, 2003
    19,036
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    Yep, I had it happen to me back in 1985 when I was buying a new light blue Nissan 300ZX from a Nissan dealer.
    I test drove the car on the lot, said I wanted it but had to get a car loan approved from my bank.
    I went back the next day with the car loan approved and the new 300ZX had a big dent in the lower panel on the driver's side of the car.
    The dealership said they could fix it like new and nobody would know the difference.
    They said small accidents like that happen more often than you think on tight car lots.

    I said I still wanted the exact same car, just not THAT one.
    They couldn't believe I was going to force them to do a dealer trade to sell me my new car.
    I told them I wrote down the VIN of the damaged car and I definitely wanted a different new one, just like it.
    The next day they called me with another new one on their lot, which I bought.

    So, if I didn't see the damage with my own eyes, they would have fixed it and never told me a thing about it.
    .
     
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  24. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Here is the sticking point

    You assume a CPO car has never had any paintwork
    The dealer believes a car with paintwork done to factory standards meets CPO standard.

    Kinda hard to win that one. No where in the contract does is say the CPO statement that the car never had any damage or paintwork done. It just says its to factory spec.

    Your case seems extreme but a lot of cars have their front bumpers resprayed for resale to remove chips and stuff. If it's to factory spec, then no one really cares. Fairly common.
     
    anunakki and RossoC360 like this.
  25. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

    Oct 17, 2005
    12,313
    At Sea Level
    Happened to me too. Car bought new (VW Jetta),... having a tire repaired 6 months later,.. mechanic says the entire front of the car has been painted...

    Dealer didn't disclose anything but we (wife and I) got the car stupid cheap (3K less than any competing dealer) at 9 pm on the last day of the month... we thought we stole it. Dealers never lose....
     
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