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four point harness 360cs

Discussion in '360/430' started by titanium360, May 24, 2004.

  1. titanium360

    titanium360 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Nov 10, 2003
    3,371
    has anyone put a four point harness seat belt on their 360cs? is it realy uncomfortable for daily driving? how much does it cost?
     
  2. 456mgt

    456mgt Formula Junior

    Mar 24, 2002
    628
    Cambridge UK
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Got one on mine, and it's fine for daily driving; you don't notice it when it's on. It's a pain if you want to reverse though, as it doesn't let you move your body round very much (if you can look over your shoulder, it isn't tight enough). Can't remember how much it cost, and probably irrelevant as it's a UK car.
     
  3. robinh

    robinh Formula Junior

    Jan 3, 2004
    622
    Cambridgeshire, Engl
    Full Name:
    Robin
    Agree totally with Kevin - you need to undo it to reverse, which is easy, otherwise it's fine. I think in the UK it was a no cost option but again, as with Kevin, I can't remember but happy I got it
     
  4. spyderman

    spyderman Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,469
    Toronto - Canada
    Full Name:
    Spyderman

    I am having them installed this week. I believe the cost of my five point harness was about $500 Cdn. The install is extra. Purchased the harness from my dealer.
     
  5. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Remember, if you install the harnesses, you should really install the rollbar too... unless you are okay with almost certain death in the case of a rollover.

    If your goal is to reduce flopping around in high-performance driving, but you don't want to install the rollbar, then I recommend you get a clip for the lap belt and a strap that goes around the seat and around your chest.

    That solution holds me securely in place... but will allow my upper body to slump over in the case of a rollover (which can be the difference between life and death).
     
  6. titanium360

    titanium360 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Nov 10, 2003
    3,371
    isn't it illegal to have a four or point harness in us and canada? can you please post a pic after it is installed?
     
  7. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    No, its not illegal for you to add them. Its just illegal for Ferrari to supply them without doing the crash testing with them installed. Same with the rollbar.
     
  8. thomas_b

    thomas_b Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2003
    765
    I agree with Brian I would not use a harness without rollbar

    To add the CS rollbar & harness after the fact is a pain – I am still looking into it but you have to deal with 20+ parts and to give you an example the firewall cover with cutouts cost $1500 – it also looks like F is making it hard to get at CS parts

    Classic Coach in NY (sp?) has done a custom installation of a CS rollbar and I am sure they can do the harness too – they mailed me some pictures and the work looks great
     
  9. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2004
    1,330
    SF, Bay Area
    $500 Cdn is awfully cheap; I think with the exchange rate it is about US $300? The driver side alone cost over $600 at a local shop. And the Ferrari dealer doesn’t even sell them to you because of the liability reasons. A friend of min installed them in his 360M and ended up paying over $2K. They also kept his original seatbelts so you can wear those during normal driving if you choose.

    Brian,

    Where do you get the strap you are talking about? It seems a quick fix for the occasional track day event.

    Cheers,
    Matt
     
  10. thomas_b

    thomas_b Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2003
    765
    http://www.rmrace.com/rmferrari/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi?product=cat15&cart_id=

    not sure what teh quality is or how they mount the belts but they are even cheaper
     
  11. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2004
    1,330
    SF, Bay Area
  12. Leica

    Leica Rookie

    Apr 15, 2004
    33
    Can you please explain how a rollover would cause serious injury with the four-point without a roll bar?
     
  13. 360C

    360C F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    I installed the factory roll hoop and 4 point belts in my 360 Modena. I have the factory sports seats and used all factory parts. The local dealer installed it and it was a big job to do it correctly. All up cost was a bit over $10k Australian a couple of years back. That's about $7k US.
     
  14. robinh

    robinh Formula Junior

    Jan 3, 2004
    622
    Cambridgeshire, Engl
    Full Name:
    Robin
    I have to say I don't agree on this.

    Two point belts in general have pre-tensioners in them, well here they do, with an explosive charge that pulls the person into the seat both at the waist and at the shoulder. as such it is impossible to submarine and slump in the seat. These two point belts save lives and I don't see how a four point belt differs.
     
  15. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 16, 2003
    5,179
    "To add the CS rollbar & harness after the fact is a pain – I am still looking into it but you have to deal with 20+ parts and to give you an example the firewall cover with cutouts cost $1500 – it also looks like F is making it hard to get at CS parts"

    I would love to order all the factory parts - if you find a way to get them, I'll join in.
     
  16. robinh

    robinh Formula Junior

    Jan 3, 2004
    622
    Cambridgeshire, Engl
    Full Name:
    Robin
    I would feel sure that the parts could be ordered through Ferrari UK as spares as these are all standard book items for the UK market and hence must be replaceable. The US car could of course be modified at the factory so it cannot take non US parts but that would seem unlikely
     
  17. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Two-point belts (lap belts) leave your whole upper body free... I assume your above argument is talking about three-point belts.

    Three-point belts with pre-tensioners will tend to prevent much forward movement... true. But they do not prevent much side-to-side movement. In fact, a common "mild" injury is due to front passengers heads clonking together as they both bounce to the inside of the car.

    In 3-point belts, your body is free to slide to the side that the belts aren't going over your shoulder. Once you've slid about 30 degrees to that side, the shoulder belt is now going just over your belly, allowing your torso to slump. In this way, its pretty easy in a locked up 3-point belt to lay your face on the center console or gear shifter... even without a tremendous force pushing you there. In the case of a roof coming down on your head, your body will naturally be shoved down that way.

    With 4- or more point belts, your torso cannot move side to side. Your torso will be forcibly kept upright... your spine vertical. Now when that roof comes down on your head, only your head can move. In most cars without rollbars, the roof will often collapse to about shoulder height. Thus, your head, neck and spine become your car's center roof structure. Most likely, your neck gives first ... broken neck is usually not too desirable.

    With a strap around your chest, as I use, you can't easily slide to the side like with a 3-point belt... but you can slump to the side. Broken ribs, fairly likely. But I'd rather that than forcing my neck to take all the impact.

    Where to get said strap? or said clip? Give me a day and I'll get you that info... its been a while since I ordered such.
     
  18. titanium360

    titanium360 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Nov 10, 2003
    3,371
    Brian, can you please post a pic of your seat belt set up?
     
  19. GTRPower

    GTRPower Karting

    Mar 24, 2004
    105
    Orlando, FL
    Full Name:
    Nick
    Brian-

    To a certain extent I disagree with your assessment.

    The 360 Coupe and 355 Berlinetta have fairly strong triangulated roof structures at the back, unlike many, if not most, 2 door coupes. These cars can survive a rollover test- just like the GTS and Spider versions- from the factory. Of course, the roof would not survive an extreme collision/rollover, but neither would many "normal" harness mount points. A rollbar would not really increase the safety of the design unless it incorporates a brace from the middle of the back hoop to the floorpan to the front- and not too many people are willing to compromise the passenger seating area (or any seating area for that matter).

    In addition... I don't consider a 4pt harness to be safe. Minimum 5pt harness, and actually 5pt is safer than 6pt (certain 6pt harnesses/installations can possibly severe the main artery in both legs in a collision). The anti-sub strap is probably the most important part of the whole installation- in fact Schroth (who I think is the best competition harness maker currently) uses the anti-sub strap as the cam locator. Without that strap, a race harness is actually less safe than a standard 3 pt DOT belt.

    Now the bigger question is- do people who install 4-6 point harnesses consider basal skull fracture injuries a big issue (which, if you need a rollbar, would definitely be an issue)? If so, do they install the harnesses with the intent (and to the spec) to use a HANS device? Another thing- many rollcages/rollbars installed in these cars are bolt in affairs- about as safe as the bolts that are in these kits are used in sheer (in other words, not safe at all). How many people who own Ferraris... who install 4-6pt harnesses... who install rollbars... who use a HANS device w/helmet... will do this all correctly... and not actually be racing competitively?

    In the end, I personally wouldn't install a 4pt harness... if I use a harness (and yes, I have them for both driver and passenger in my 355 along with one piece race seats) it would be a 5-6pt design... I use them solely for HPDE events, with a HANS device, and on the street I use the standard factory belt.

    And, no, I don't have a roll bar in the 355, but I do have a welded in, 6 point roll cage in one of my other street cars so I have some experience with building/using a roll cage in a street car.

    Cheers!
     
  20. titanium360

    titanium360 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Nov 10, 2003
    3,371
    Why wouldn't you guys use the 4 or 5 point harness seat belt for your regular street driving?
     
  21. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2004
    1,330
    SF, Bay Area
    I am surprised guys with the racing seats in their Modenas don't normally order the 4-point harness from factory. The 4-point point harness does not have a lap belt which surprised me. But for track use most of the slop is side to side and not back and forth, so it may not be a big deal.
    Does Ferrari even have a 5 or 6 point harness for street cars? I haven't seen one!
     

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